please end mystery boxes (loot boxes, glorified gambling)

loot boxes being a moral issue, seems to be the consensus. Where you have placed yourself on the moral scale is going to be the determining factor on what stance you take on them.

The way this game is designed, each time you defeat a mob, gives the same psychological and or physiological effect as pulling the lever on a slot machine. you don't know whether it is going to drop something of great value, or nothing of worth. When something of great value does drop, most people experience an actual physiological/psychological response. This is inherently the same as a loot box, except for the fact that it doesn't cost you any money to achieve.

Or does it?

As been well documented in the research, games which have systems designed to trigger phycological responses can have detrimental effects on a persons life. They can cost a person personally, professionally and even physically. It has been documented to destroy people, families and even result in death.

If loot boxes are morally repugnant because of the damage they cause, then what defense is there for the game itself? Who is the more responsible, The guy who grows agave knowing it is going to be used to create tequila, or the guy who makes tequila? Look how tricky this becomes.

If you are basing your moral stance on possible end results, the deeper you delve into the issue the harder it is to separate the game from the loot boxes. Morally they are the same.

"

Miská wrote:

Some people really don't understand what off-topic means. This thread should be locked to prevent stupids from continueing nonsense off-topic blabber.

Ah yes, the other tactic for trying to get threads locked whose message one doesn't agree with.

"Mods, people are going off-topic! Please lock this thread now!"

This is a thread issuing a direct challenge to the ethics of GGG's business model, with a number of quality posts (and an even higher number of shitposts, but what else is new in Feedback and Suggestions?). To GGG's credit, I've never seen them lock threads like this, and for very good reason.

(For comparison's sake, I've seen Blizzard lock and even stealth-delete specific posts in threads critical of their business model. I dropped a negative review on Amazon and stopped posting in their forums completely upon observing that.)

That said, to the people who continue talking about p2w: Stop. Go make your own fucking thread. It's not hard to do. I promise.

"

Xtorma wrote:

loot boxes being a moral issue, seems to be the consensus. Where you have placed yourself on the moral scale is going to be the determining factor on what stance you take on them.

The way this game is designed, each time you defeat a mob, gives the same psychological and or physiological effect as pulling the lever on a slot machine. you don't know whether it is going to drop something of great value, or nothing of worth. When something of great value does drop, most people experience an actual physiological/psychological response. This is inherently the same as a loot box, except for the fact that it doesn't cost you any money to achieve.

Or does it?

As been well documented in the research, games which have systems designed to trigger phycological responses can have detrimental effects on a persons life. They can cost a person personally, professionally and even physically. It has been documented to destroy people, families and even result in death.

If loot boxes are morally repugnant because of the damage they cause, then what defense is there for the game itself? Who is the more responsible, The guy who grows agave knowing it is going to be used to create tequila, or the guy who makes tequila? Look how tricky this becomes.

If you are basing your moral stance on possible end results, the deeper you delve into the issue the harder it is to separate the game from the loot boxes. Morally they are the same.

Quoting yourself is obnoxious, but I get sick of talking in circles, so I'll do it anyway:

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

So it's all or nothing?

Video games are inherently immoral (already questionable, but let's ignore that for the moment) and we should therefore not question the ethics of any behavior which accompanies their business models?

Color me unconvinced.

Furthermore, your equation of intra-video game skinnner boxes with real-money RNG loot boxes is highly suspect, both on the surface (it doesn't fly in the face of common sense) and, more importantly, the actual research that has been done: The equation of loot box psych tactics with gambling psych tactics has been well researched and documented.

Your allegation, on the other hand, seems to come out of left field. I've never heard of it, and I know of no research even examining it, let alone supporting it. Please do enlighten me if my knowledge (admittedly limited) on this topic is incomplete.

"

vio wrote:

"

Sickness wrote:

If the goal really is to kill shaper as fast as possible the person with 100 premium tabs would not have any reason to use them all to achieve that goal.

you don' need them to win the game. or my imagination of that winning is.

"

Sickness wrote:

To actually have a point you would need to explain how you cannot get an advantage from using any number of premium tabs.

you get a advantage from these tabs. otherwise people wouldn't buy them.

How about selling currency in the shop? Is that P2W? You don't need to them to win the game any more than you need the extra currency earned from a premium tab to win the game.

How about a +1% IIQ buff?

+1% damage buff?

"

Sickness wrote:

"

Miská wrote:

Some people really don't understand what off-topic means. This thread should be locked to prevent stupids from continueing nonsense off-topic blabber.

Loot boxes are glorified gambling, that case was closed 10 pages ago.

The thread is not about whether or not loot boxes are gambling, it's about whether or not GGG should discontinue them.

"

Xtorma wrote:

loot boxes being a moral issue, seems to be the consensus. Where you have placed yourself on the moral scale is going to be the determining factor on what stance you take on them.

The way this game is designed, each time you defeat a mob, gives the same psychological and or physiological effect as pulling the lever on a slot machine. you don't know whether it is going to drop something of great value, or nothing of worth. When something of great value does drop, most people experience an actual physiological/psychological response. This is inherently the same as a loot box, except for the fact that it doesn't cost you any money to achieve.

Or does it?

As been well documented in the research, games which have systems designed to trigger phycological responses can have detrimental effects on a persons life. They can cost a person personally, professionally and even physically. It has been documented to destroy people, families and even result in death.

If loot boxes are morally repugnant because of the damage they cause, then what defense is there for the game itself? Who is the more responsible, The guy who grows agave knowing it is going to be used to create tequila, or the guy who makes tequila? Look how tricky this becomes.

If you are basing your moral stance on possible end results, the deeper you delve into the issue the harder it is to separate the game from the loot boxes. Morally they are the same.

Counter to popular opinion time does not equal money.
Offering the opportunity to spend ones free time to get a particular psychological response is not the same as offering the opportunity to spend ones money for that psychological response.

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

"

Miská wrote:

Some people really don't understand what off-topic means. This thread should be locked to prevent stupids from continueing nonsense off-topic blabber.

Ah yes, the other tactic for trying to get threads locked whose message one doesn't agree with.

"Mods, people are going off-topic! Please lock this thread now!"

This is a thread issuing a direct challenge to the ethics of GGG's business model, with a number of quality posts (and an even higher number of shitposts, but what else is new in Feedback and Suggestions?). To GGG's credit, I've never seen them lock threads like this, and for very good reason.

No idea what you mean. I hardly participated in this topic. We aint just talking about an off-topic post or 2. We have like 15 pages of offtopic shit here. I think the discussion is interesting honestly. Don't put everyone is the same corner please. If a topic goes this off-topic it should be closed imo. Because the people that do it, don't give a damn as shown in the last 2 pages.

imho, the thread already started with the wrong title.

my understanding of "loot boxes" is chests found ingame which give special items you can use in the game to your advantage, you may find keys for those chests randomly but you can also buy them with real money, getting your items faster.