Can We Get Rid of Death XP Penalties Already? Games Are Supposed to be Fun

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HaraldMKutscher wrote:

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ghoulavenger wrote:

@Radees The difference between hardcore and softcore is an entire league. If you were to add another option, you would introduce another league. So while some people might like your option, you're basically adding another four leagues into the game. Standard (no death penalty), Standard SSF (No death penalty), Current League (no death penalty) and Current League SSF (no death penalty). GGG will never go for this because they resist changes that fragment the community.

Is there a good reason why GGG resists further community fragmentation? Do additional leagues cost that much more?

On the other hand: By making a wider range of playstyle fractions happy at the same time, GGG massively increases the attractivity of the game.

Since we got SSF, why shouldn't we also get a no death penalty league (or, as I have suggested several times before, a "solo with trade" league)?

GGG generally resists community fragmentation for two reasons (although there may be more).

1. GGG approves of trading. The more spread out the community, the higher the risk of dead economies.

2. GGG makes money off of selling MTX. In a well populated community, MTX will be advertised anytime someone is walking around in town. Since the majority of the playerbase ends up walking in towns significantly, they experience firsthand a walking advertisement to buy MTX. Not a perfect system, but neither is rogue exiles wearing MTX.

@The_Risen I'd rather have the death penalty than add another 100% xp to every level past 75.

First of all, I don't like dying and hate the XP penalty, but I excepted this feature as an intentional design decision.

The XP penalties are there because D2 had them too. PoE rose from a D2 clone, which is the reason why there are so many game mechanics that we know from D2 and some players would consider 'outdated'.
Actually, these feature are considered outdated because they aren't in D3, which means that Blizzard wanted to change them, but that has nothing to do with PoE and GGG's design decisions.

Actually, XP penalities have been working for a long time (in D2, PoE and other games), because there are people who like the extra portion salt on death.
This is probably the reason why GGG never have removed them after all these years. It is a unique selling point.
Actually, there are players who have more fun in games, if they succed in overcoming very frustating moments.

There is no indicator that GGG is willing to remove the XP penalty.
I am pretty sure that they know how frustating this mechanic can be.
Yet, the only action they took was reducing it to 10%.

To play PoE, every player has to find a strategy to deal with the XP penality. Here is a selection what might work for those who are struggling with it:
- Don't try to achieve level 100.
- Stop leveling when you start dying too often.
- Stop playing lethal content till you reach the desired level.
- Learn to aviod content that can kill you (similar to previous one).
- Play a build that hardly can die.
- Learn to handle the frustiation and move on.
- Learn to use Alt+F4 to avoid death.

Me helped a combination of them. (Alt+F4 never was an option for me.) For me, there is no reason to leveling beyond a certain point by limiting myself in how I play this game just to avoid death.
Actually, I reached a state of apathy with regard to dying in this game. It always can happen and even if the build and gameplay is done right. It will happen in situations of rediculous coincidence. Most HC players can explain the reasons much better than I could do.
Yet, there are HC players reaching level 100, which implies that there are successful strategies avoiding death at all.

TL;DR: XP penalty is an intentional design decision. If you can't addopt, the game will definitely not. The best way is to find a strategy to handle the XP penality (mostlikely the frustations it can create). Otherwise this game will not be fun on the long term.

Edit: Typos

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Synopse wrote:

TL;DR: XP penalty is an intentional design decision. If you can't addopt, the game will definitely not. The best way is to find a strategy to handle the XP penality (mostlikely the frustations it can create). Otherwise this game will not be fun on the long term.

Agree 100%. If they remove the xp penalty, it would be another step towards making the game easier and more casual and I am strongly against that. It would no longer be PoE in my eyes and I absolutely hate the thought of that happening. I want them to do even more things to slow people down, make the game harder in many ways to increase challenge. Challenging game = I get more out of it by learning and getting better. Most games nowadays are way too easy and hold your hand too much. No challenge = boring af game.

Just my opinion of course.

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ffogell wrote:

SSF people plays on the same server as every one, they just can't group/trade, the only thing different is the ladder they are recorded in.... (unless I'm wrong) so no problem with trade altogether.

The community is already giving more weight to SSF and HC when it comes to ladder race anyway.

*WHOOOOOOOOOOOOSH*

the complainers aren't pushing ladders and they're not ssf.

If you don't want to die in a video game, there is a HC mode, you know.

Oh, that's right. You just misclicked upon character creation screen and accidentally play SC. Like... trying to play HC through SC leagues, that is.

I get it. I'm similarly playing std because upon creation screen when I first started PoE I didn't realize trading would suck so hard. So, I made a decission: to play SSF std even if my characters weren't created into SSF mode. It's important we as players make our own decissions regarding what we set as goals in game.

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Synopse wrote:

TL;DR: XP penalty is an intentional design decision. If you can't addopt, the game will definitely not. The best way is to find a strategy to handle the XP penality (mostlikely the frustations it can create). Otherwise this game will not be fun on the long term.

In other hand, GGG has effectively reduced the death penalty in 3.0 - the 10% penalty used to begin on level 56 (Merciless' Strand), and now it only begins after killing Kitava, who's level 67.

While of course GGG won't remove the penalty, it's likely not impossible that they would reduce it further more. If/when we get more acts, for example, I wouldn't be surprised if the storyline ends on a slightly higher level, and so the 10% penalty would be pushed even farther.

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Erasculio wrote:

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Synopse wrote:

TL;DR: XP penalty is an intentional design decision. If you can't addopt, the game will definitely not. The best way is to find a strategy to handle the XP penality (mostlikely the frustations it can create). Otherwise this game will not be fun on the long term.

In other hand, GGG has effectively reduced the death penalty in 3.0 - the 10% penalty used to begin on level 56 (Merciless' Strand), and now it only begins after killing Kitava, who's level 67.

While of course GGG won't remove the penalty, it's likely not impossible that they would reduce it further more. If/when we get more acts, for example, I wouldn't be surprised if the storyline ends on a slightly higher level, and so the 10% penalty would be pushed even farther.

I'm going to strongly disagree with you here. The death penalty before level 85 is very small compared to the amount of xp you can generate even with slow clearing builds. So moving 5% to 10% at kitava didn't really change much overall, it might have made it a little bit easier for newbies to reach maps but thats it.

However the death penalty after level 95 has been raised as a consequence to level 95+ having their xp gain nerfed time and time again without having the death penalty adjusted to compensate. The death penalty itself was only reduced once, sometime around 1.0 to 10% instead of 15%.

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vmt80 wrote:

If you don't want to die in a video game, there is a HC mode, you know.

Oh, that's right. You just misclicked upon character creation screen and accidentally play SC. Like... trying to play HC through SC leagues, that is.

I get it. I'm similarly playing std because upon creation screen when I first started PoE I didn't realize trading would suck so hard. So, I made a decission: to play SSF std even if my characters weren't created into SSF mode. It's important we as players make our own decissions regarding what we set as goals in game.

that moment when you use over-the-top sarcasm to not complain but you end up complaining, anyway.

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ghoulavenger wrote:

However the death penalty after level 95 has been raised as a consequence to level 95+ having their xp gain nerfed time and time again without having the death penalty adjusted to compensate. The death penalty itself was only reduced once, sometime around 1.0 to 10% instead of 15%.

of course, the gain was nerfed.

level 78 used to be the highest map level.

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Synopse wrote:

Here is a selection what might work for those who are struggling with it:
- Don't try to achieve level 100.
- Stop leveling when you start dying too often.
- Stop playing lethal content till you reach the desired level.
- Learn to aviod content that can kill you (similar to previous one).
- Play a build that hardly can die.
- Learn to handle the frustiation and move on.
- Learn to use Alt+F4 to avoid death.

Missing the obligatory "git gud". Seriously though, there are so many ways to not die in situations in which you would otherwise. I doubt good players on non melee builds are ever hit by Izaro against their will while paying attention for instance.