Can We Get Rid of Death XP Penalties Already? Games Are Supposed to be Fun

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The_Risen wrote:

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DER_PSYCHOPATH wrote:

Stop expecting to reach max level on glass cannons and all the frustration flies out the window. This isn't Diablo. Endgame doesn't begin at max level. 90% of the improvements of a character after level 90, if not more, come from gear, not levels. Levels are only there to keep a few people who love the grind playing for a little longer. If losing something as meaningless as exp prevents you from enjoying the game, then I'm not sure if you would enjoy it otherwise.

I'm not a hardliner saying that exp penalties on death are absolutely mandatory, but for the time being, they fulfill their purpose, and I have yet to see a viable better solution.

I just wanted to get to max level, but i also wanted to do it while having fun. rofl, also i never play glass cannons......

Well what you "Want" and what is "Necessary" are two entirely different things in this case..

Lets look at someone who achives 100 every league.. Havok!

Ever notice something about his lvl 100s every single league?
They NEVER stay what he leveled.. EVER!!! The second they hit 100 they get respeced into whatever he had planned for the league.. What does that tell you?

The Exp Penalty and actually Dying which in turn is going backwards is only PART of the push.. and very small part at that..

It will litteraly come down to the maps your running, how your running them, how fast you can negotiate those maps maximizing exp gains, how fast you open and enter the next map, how you stash all your shit you pick up, picking up less and less shit, pulling out every possible stop just to do anything to make the bar that never moves move just a little bit today..

Theres a fuck ton more to the push than just dieing and -10%.. even when you have that shit covered its a pointless, endless, most UNFUN grind i could think of.. if you really want it that bad do what everyone else does.. fist fuck T11s into oblivion in a map that drops any of the Multiple Exalt Cards randomly every about 1000 maps you run... and run about 500+ (Minimum) maps a day EVERYDAY.. Non-stop... If your cant survive T11's and you cant map fast enough to see viable or better than T14-15 exp (T16 with sustain is another thread and discussion altogether..) Fuck even if you can survive chances are quite high you wont finish the grind itself.. regardless.. Or at the very least do it fast enough consistently enough to make progress.

Getting tanky enough to not die is not the issue.. making a build that doesn't die AND has the damage to one shot everything AND have enough to speed to negotiate maps in 2 mins or less is where it gets tricky and just removing death changes nearly nothing of the grind... Just makes boss's and shit even more irrelevant than they already are.. which are borderline skip as it is. And makes it where the people who already know how to push 100 will be able to do so consistently in about 2-3 days.. Hell Havok even died while pushing to 100 in Delve.. quite a FEW times... and still got it first by a shit ton..

Here's a little thought exercise for no particular reason:


1) What happens to the death penalty once you reach max level?

I've never reached it, but I'm assuming the penalty basically stops existing, since there'd be no more "XP towards next level" to lose.

At that point, do we no longer need a penalty to "teach us the error of our ways" because we made a good enough character to reach level 100? Or did we just earn our "no death penalty cheat" through an extremely grindy process?


2) What is the practical difference between "reaching level 100 and ignoring the death penalty" and "reaching level XX and ignoring the death penalty"?

There are ways to reach max level, but they're usually boring and time-consuming -- a mindless grind in low-level maps, more or less. So, unless they intend to push for 100, some experienced players pick a level to aim for and pretty much ignore the penalty from then on (assuming they continue playing that character).

Are they giving up their last few levels for the privilege to unlock the "cheat" sooner, in an effort to adapt to a flawed system? Or are they simply mocking said system which only really punishes OCD players who want to reach 100, and the few builds that could greatly benefit from those last few skill points?


Food for thought. Thanks for reading.

@NemoJr The death penalty is a consequence to grinding for levels. If levels are your objective, that is the only time the death penalty matters. You could say that people cheat themselves of the penalty by not reaching for max level, but that is acceptable by GGG's standards because their objective is to prevent people from getting to level 100 "too quickly", the death penalty effectively just adds more to the grind.

What do people do when they get to level 100 then? Whatever they want.

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Fruz wrote:

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Radees wrote:

The solution is simple: add a check square in every league selection (standard, delve...) named "exp penalty". So who wants it simply check, who do not wants it, uncheck. You know, this is called FREEDOM OF CHOICE. Yes, everyone to be free of choosing and fine tuning their own game pleasure, without a bunch of idiots childish fanboys imposing like nazis the exp penalty to others (by warping Light speed to defend it every time) or asking it to be raised in %

Brilliant idea, what about they add a checkbox "start the game at tier 16 on a level 92 character" ?
I mean, it's a choice, and the guardians are fun, so everybody definitely should have easy access to it, so it can't possibly bad, right ?

Oh and if anybody has anything to say about it, either they agree or just are 'a bunch of idiots childish fanboys' who behave like 'nazis'.

And another checkbox "give me a mirror after I kill Brutus".

/s

Its not a bad idea per se, much like SSF you could check for NO XP DEATH and the difference is that you play in the same league but you are on a different ladder like with SSF

It could work and there would be no problem about the race to 100.

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ffogell wrote:

Its not a bad idea per se, much like SSF you could check for NO XP DEATH and the difference is that you play in the same league but you are on a different ladder like with SSF

It could work and there would be no problem about the race to 100.

...except that it would be nothing but participation trophy winners and therefore trade would be terribad/sparse... so the complaining would only increase exponentially.



edit: lolz @ "not a bad idea" and uber lolz @ a "ladder" where zerging is encouraged.

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robmafia wrote:

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ffogell wrote:

Its not a bad idea per se, much like SSF you could check for NO XP DEATH and the difference is that you play in the same league but you are on a different ladder like with SSF

It could work and there would be no problem about the race to 100.

...except that it would be nothing but participation trophy winners and therefore trade would be terribad/sparse... so the complaining would only increase exponentially.



edit: lolz @ "not a bad idea" and uber lolz @ a "ladder" where zerging is encouraged.

SSF people plays on the same server as every one, they just can't group/trade, the only thing different is the ladder they are recorded in.... (unless I'm wrong) so no problem with trade altogether.

The community is already giving more weight to SSF and HC when it comes to ladder race anyway.

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Erasculio wrote:

The thing is, the death penalty isn't there in order to "make the game less fun". Nor is it there to "separate the boys from the real men".

Removing the death penalty would be basically the same as increasing the speed in which people earn levels. GGG is terrified of this - their business model consists on keeping people around as long as possible, so anything that makes people closer to moments when they could stop playing (the credits, the end of the storyline, the level cap, having maxed gear) is either removed or delayed as much as possible.

So it's very, VERY unlikely that GGG would ever remove the death penalty. No, it's not because "too many people are glass cannons", or because they want to annoy their players, or anything like that - that's how GGG's business model works.

I'm honestly very surprised that they have made levelling faster than it was in 2.0.

remove death penalty

increase xp required to level above 75 by 100%.

done

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NemoJr wrote:

Here's a little thought exercise for no particular reason:


1) What happens to the death penalty once you reach max level?

I've never reached it, but I'm assuming the penalty basically stops existing, since there'd be no more "XP towards next level" to lose.

At that point, do we no longer need a penalty to "teach us the error of our ways" because we made a good enough character to reach level 100? Or did we just earn our "no death penalty cheat" through an extremely grindy process?


2) What is the practical difference between "reaching level 100 and ignoring the death penalty" and "reaching level XX and ignoring the death penalty"?

There are ways to reach max level, but they're usually boring and time-consuming -- a mindless grind in low-level maps, more or less. So, unless they intend to push for 100, some experienced players pick a level to aim for and pretty much ignore the penalty from then on (assuming they continue playing that character).

Are they giving up their last few levels for the privilege to unlock the "cheat" sooner, in an effort to adapt to a flawed system? Or are they simply mocking said system which only really punishes OCD players who want to reach 100, and the few builds that could greatly benefit from those last few skill points?


Food for thought. Thanks for reading.

Yummy :)

Death penalty is there to hold "glass cannons" back.
It seems that it doesnt fulfill its purpose.
So WHY do you want to have it removed, intead of making it more severe???

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ghoulavenger wrote:

@Radees The difference between hardcore and softcore is an entire league. If you were to add another option, you would introduce another league. So while some people might like your option, you're basically adding another four leagues into the game. Standard (no death penalty), Standard SSF (No death penalty), Current League (no death penalty) and Current League SSF (no death penalty). GGG will never go for this because they resist changes that fragment the community.

Is there a good reason why GGG resists further community fragmentation? Do additional leagues cost that much more?

On the other hand: By making a wider range of playstyle fractions happy at the same time, GGG massively increases the attractivity of the game.

Since we got SSF, why shouldn't we also get a no death penalty league (or, as I have suggested several times before, a "solo with trade" league)?