for everyone who wants a challange
" OHHHHHHHHHH THIS GUY DOES NOT AGREE WITH MY QQING, DUH WHITEKNIGHT DUH! (alright, alright, they don't all write with capslock). That said, not all sugestions are about QQing of course, at all. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Last edited by Fruz#6137 on Sep 27, 2018, 2:23:13 AM
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" “Desync” was not a core game design philosophy. It was a result of many things but not that. If you want a more relevant example how about loot modes? I strongly advocated for the option to have assigned loot and one of GGG’s core design philosophies back then was that the game should be as cutthroat as possible so free-for-all was all we’d ever have. We did win that one. Maybe this one has as much merit. It has certainly gotten less response from GGG though. POE Serenity Prayer: GGG, grant me the serenity to accept the RNG I cannot change,
the courage to challenge any unbalanced content, and the wisdom to avoid the forums. Mad: "Oh, it's simple and if you insist... I just think you're a dick. That's all." QFT: 4TRY4C&4NO |
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" Well, desync was a core PROGRAM design philosophy, rather than gameplay design. Another example that GGG never really talked AT LENGTH on was Reflect. I do remember when random rare mobs could just have a reflect aura that meant for any decent-clear build, one or two shots would kill yourself. There were tons of people to defend it claiming it "made people play more carefully" and "go slower." Thing is... It proved to do neither. And eventually it got scaled back to stop being an aura. The "thornflesh" bloodline mod was also removed ENTIRELY. And now we don't even have random reflect on mobs; we just get "thorns" and other retaliation projectiles; our only interaction with "reflect" is as a random map mod, which NEVER is a "play carefully" mod; either it means nothing to your build, or you reroll. But yeah, they've definitely relented before. Which should be a GOOD thing: GGG, especially early on, operated from a very, very narrow range of experiences. The founders basically just had... Limited experience with Diablo 2, and that was about it for their 21st-century RPG experience. The truth is that... A lot of conventions don't age well. Many turned out to not have been all that great to begin with. A lot of PoE's strengths came from its willingness to buck a good deal of extant conventions, such as doing away with "gold," (which was a pretty unique move) and also to not base itself around cloning something resembling D&D's clunky base attribute system. (which is something more and more games are now doing as well anyway) The general consensus of the entire industry does appear that in terms of a method for punishing players for sloppy gameplay, robbing them of outright core progress has proven to be a bad thing. As I mentioned before, PoE kinda stands very, very alone in its position. I do frequently bring up Warframe, since its model and success (a serious, big F2P game to appeal to non-casuals that has achieved mainstream success with millions of players) are comparable to PoE's, and it's done a lot of things quite well. Dying most certainly is still something to avoid, even though you can NEVER make "backwards progress." Instead, you simply have a finite number of lives per mission, and each death DOES knock a slight portion off of your present gains for JUST that mission. (you lose 10% of the EXP you'd accumulated up to the point of your death; gains after resurrecting are not penalized) To be honest, even just losing portals is a serious thing in PoE, that for some reason defenders of the status quo always try to pretend doesn't exist... Except that, well, if it wasn't an issue, why are players unhappy about losing maps to crashes? If you're in a party, one death can mean the end of that map for you. And even solo... There's plenty of cases where it's a very real case of "you will run out of portals." The brings us to the real problem with the death penalty here; it DOESN'T encourage "safer builds" or even "safer play within a map." It merely encourages safer map picks. The meta instead is to put off anything that could kill you (Atziri, Shaper/Elder, HoGM, etc.) until AFTER you level. And quite frankly, that's kinda dumb. My guides: Summon Homing Missile (SRS) | Act II starter RF | Budget Oro's Flicker Strike Last edited by ACGIFT#1167 on Sep 27, 2018, 2:39:09 AM
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" I can’t disagree with anything you wrote. Makes perfect sense. Maybe you can start a more serious post with this as a basis. You might reach Labyrinthian lengths even. :) POE Serenity Prayer: GGG, grant me the serenity to accept the RNG I cannot change,
the courage to challenge any unbalanced content, and the wisdom to avoid the forums. Mad: "Oh, it's simple and if you insist... I just think you're a dick. That's all." QFT: 4TRY4C&4NO |
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" Reflect did used to make, because people were not dealing potentially millions of damage per second and the HP of monsters had not been buffed consequently. Now, it does not anymore. I have not seen GGG ever say anything regarding why there was/is still reflect in the game though, I could have missed it obviously. " PoE stands alone in its position for many things ( for good or bad, usually for good because it's what make the game what it is ). Apart from loosing experience we could have ... item loss ? That would be aweful, gear being the main carrot in this game, remove items from player and that would probably be pretty much the end of the game ( at least SC ). So the only thing remaining is ... experience. Get xp back on your corpse ? that would be stupid, there is no "distance opportunity cost" in PoE, you can teleport anywhere in no time. And trying to justify removing the xp by addind silly bonuses or such ( as I have seen this said many times, by people that would likely still be unsatisfied with whatever outcome there would be, would it still have an impact on death ) would only make the whole thing less intuitive, and would achieve nothing. " I don't know if you're playing a different verions of PoE in a private server, or since when you stopped actually playing ( since you've been here a lot recently but yet without even playing the league ... ), but we are in 3.4.x ... Put your item filter, and at most what ... 3 portals are going to be used if you are even remotely efficient ? 4 at most ? An I am talking about sextanted corrupted maps with potentially Zana inside. We are not in 1.0.0 were most rare items could have a potential value and were worth picking up, now you just look for specific bases that you need or have an economical value, some uniques ( or all if you vendor the cheap ones ) and a bunch of small items that don't really take space. You have at least 2 spare portals. = Meaningless. And you have not been able to back your claim up at all, how is that a serious thing ? Well you can't actually back it up because it just isn't at all. It's very simple. Another problem would be that logging out would be put at the same level than dying ( even worse, you loose the portal during the storyline, not that it matters at all before maps actually but still ). Logging out being something actually encouraged by GGG, it's part of how they expect players to play. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
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" I'm talking about dying to content to lose portals. See what I said about in parties, where one death = no more map if it was a 6-man. And yes, even solo, there's content where you could conceivably die repeatedly. These things are listed as "Deadly Encounters" for generally good reason. (which I'd noticed are encounters you've consistently skipped; Shaper/Uber Elder, Vaal Temple, Uber Atziri, etc.) While yes, a tiny number of folk have found ways to trivialize the Uber Elder fight, the rate is far smaller than that for most of the others, partly because Uber Elder has a mechanical weakness that can be exploited if you dump DPS fast enough to phase them instantly. Plus, there's many unique maps like Hall of Grandmasters, and even weaker ones like Putrid Cloister and Vinktar Square. For the vast majority of players, dying 6 times to something like that is, in fact, a distinct possibility. I can tell you that a lot of these things are dangerous even with excellent builds, from my own personal experience. " To be honest, this is ALSO a design that I find really dumb... Yes, HC players may hate being called out as "Alt+F4 League," but it's really silly that this form of metagaming is actually legitimized. My guides: Summon Homing Missile (SRS) | Act II starter RF | Budget Oro's Flicker Strike
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This age-old discussion...
Nonetheless, here are my 2ct on it. I agree with both of these statements: " " Problem is, there is no scenario in which both sides of this debate win fully. I believe death should come at a price, but also that this price is too high at high levels for the technical stability of the game. This is a very subjective line which everybody will draw elsewhere. My suggestion would be a choice if you die in the mapping phase: Choose 10% xp loss or lose all portals. Or other such choices, especially when in content other than maps where portals are an alternative resource to lose... May your maps be bountiful, exile
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" To be honest, the claim of "There'd be no incentive to make better builds/play better" is a speculative claim that's easily debunked. No other modern "long-play" game (I'm discounting short-run permadeath stuff like Risk of Rain) punishes players for dying anywhere near what Path of Exile does. Yet, by the logic of those defending such stiff penalties, that means all those other games are ruled by players that just plain suck at the game, because there was no harsh death penalty to make them build/play better. Since this is NOT the case, we see that this argument for the death penalty has zero merit. And even within PoE itself, we see the argument has no merit given that there's still a HUGE difference between "SC" and "HC" builds. " Well, in some places this would make no difference, (if optional) or be horrifically unfair. (if enforced) Namely, the "deadly encounters" and similar "highly dangerous" content. Shaper, Uber Elder, Uber Atziri, maps like HoGM, etc. Those are the types of content that when players do them AT ALL, they tend to hold off on attempts until they are at 0% EXP, since they can often involve multiple deaths. It's one thing to do Shaper or Uber Elder deathless, but deathless Vaal Temple, Uber Atziri and HoGM are out of reach for most of those that can do other "deadly encounters" fine. And of course, let's not forget that there are numerous places where ONE death ruins it: dying in labyrinth equals losing the entire run (and hundreds of runs later, I can tell you: >99% of the worthwhile rewards are gonna be at the end anyway... Plus LOTS of people still do die in lab) and, of course, dying during a Delve loses that run. (and its sulphite!) There's plenty of other cases where the player is punished for dying, such as in incursions (once they become core content in ~2 months) where dying... Ends the incursion prematurely. A lot of folk trying to defend the current status quo seem intent on pretending these things don't exist. My guides: Summon Homing Missile (SRS) | Act II starter RF | Budget Oro's Flicker Strike Last edited by ACGIFT#1167 on Sep 27, 2018, 4:30:39 AM
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yeah, diablo 2 sucked and no one liked it or wanted to play it because of the death penalty.
said basically no one ever. [Removed by Support]
"Your forum signature was removed as it was considered to be inappropriate and a breach of our Code of Conduct." ...it was quotes. from the forum. lolz! |
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exp penalty needs to GO AWAY FUCK
dying in this game is unavoidable because of bugs, disconnects, lag spikes and unexplained damage outputs when the game wants you to die (and since there is still no death summary I am 100% sure the game doesn't play fair in some of those situations!) xp penalty does nothing but to waste time and drive people off who can't progress any further (pretty much every time I uninstalled and quit for some time was because of a bullshit death (or several)!) oh and how often these bullshit deaths happen in delve (which I now ignore mostly when I'm levelling) easiest solution: replace the punishment system with a reward system e.g. every map tier you complete gives you map tier/100 bonus % on ex gained example: you do 3 tier 10 and 1 tier 5 maps without dying -> you gain 0.35% bonus xp gain UNTIL you die capped at 150% or whatever result: xp can only go up but not down, and grinding to level 100 still takes ages (but people who don't die can still go up in levels much quicker), making EVERYBODY happy. (note: there still could be ways to lose xp with special "hardcore" encounters put in. maybe as a map mod, or a league flavour, or anything one can imagine. but the regular player should be allowed to go to level 100 just by putting enough time and effort in!) PS: and yeah, people claiming this game is "too easy" can also fuck off!!! how about playing solo and not picking the op skill of the month for a change and then we'll see what's too easy! since I have no hope for significant game design improvements in this game I am officially done with Path of Exile. done for good Last edited by LMTR14#6725 on Sep 27, 2018, 4:41:06 AM
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