for everyone who wants a challange

"

Phaeded wrote:

"

ACGIFT wrote:

Well, except, y'know, you're comparing an actual option IN THIS GAME to just playing a different game.

This game ALREADY has something to cater to the masochists that want to be punished. Those same masochists (who so desperately want to pretend they're better players than they are) are trying to push things across all players, and taking the elitist argument of "It's MY game, go play something else!"

Well, while I don't agree with your position on this I don't think that accurately describes my attitude about it. However, I will say that POE is not a game for everyone. It does attempt to cater to a very specific demographic of gamer. Some things are open for discussion because they don't affect the base beliefs of the developer but others are so ingrained in their design philosophy it's really pointless to try and get them to change. And it's because they do not care about making everyone happy that this is the case. If they wanted to try and please everyone there would be:

1. Alternate options for ascendancies
2. In-game trade tools
3. No SC death penalty
4. An auction house
5. Maps would be plentiful without any currency investment
6. Delve would have no participation cost

Etc., etc. This topic is just one of those things that just isn't going away, and since I firmly believe that I can either go play something else or adjust to it. I've chosen to adjust to it.

Anyway, that's my position. I decided to get over it instead of trying to change it because it's one of the core things I don't think GGG will every give in on, unless the entire senior team left.

In the end you are probably right GGG stance, I just challenge if that rules is still meaningfull.

Honestly I wish they would drop in and have an official stance on the subject instead of us arguing for x pages on the subject lmao ;)

"

Phaeded wrote:

5. Maps would be plentiful without any currency investment

They did kinda sorta give us #5, at least in a roundabout way.

Yeah, I know that it's still paying chaos orbs, but the rate is pretty agreeable, and has been reflected in the market: Standard-league prices for red and T16 map have been pretty gutted.

On Standard, EUGS went from an average of around 60c near the end of Delve, to around maybe 35c now. Since we've had no evidence of players STOPPING to run EUGS, that means that the price is due to an expansion of supply, not contraction of demand.

And EUGS isn't alone: If you check the history graphs for the guardian maps, even THOSE took a huge hit, from being 40c+ to all under 30c, in spite the fact that you can't even generate them with the map device; but being able to get T15 shaped and T16 elder maps on-demand has suddenly made them more plentiful.

"

Phaeded wrote:

Anyway, that's my position. I decided to get over it instead of trying to change it because it's one of the core things I don't think GGG will every give in on, unless the entire senior team left.

To be honest, that's not entirely out of the realm of possibility. This year we saw Tencent take an 80% stake in the company. While they can PROMISE all they want, there is legally nothing stopping them from doing what they want. They could fire Chris from his own company in an instant if they so felt it.

And since Tencent isn't as invested in the "original vision" of the founders (that is HEAVILY tinted with rose glasses) I do feel that there's still real possibility they can force GGG's hand and make the game adapt.

This is especially so given that their earlier rapid growth has largely played out; GGG had the benefit in that when Diablo 3 came out (and flopped, missing its full potential) Path of Exile was alone in waiting right there to catch everything that slipped through the cracks. No one else had believed in the ARPG market, so PoE got to reap the rewards of a lack of competition.

Now, the genre has seen a lot of growth; it's all but a "hot fad genre" now, so there's plenty of others there waiting to catch whatever falls through GGG's own cracks. They can't afford to play the market the way they had before and expect the same success, let alone growth. The founders of GGG might not realize that, (or want to believe that) but Tencent does.

"

ACGIFT wrote:

They did kinda sorta give us #5, at least in a roundabout way.

Yeah, I know that it's still paying chaos orbs, but the rate is pretty agreeable, and has been reflected in the market: Standard-league prices for red and T16 map have been pretty gutted.

On Standard,

*facepalm*

dude stop trolling
...

i just said my opinion about why death penalty sux
and you keep provoke me with cheesy crap...

"

Wladicorist1 wrote:

all i say is that deathpenalty just downgrades my fun for the game

Because you apparently can't get bothered to make the slightest effort to make your character better and die less.

Maybe there are other games that would be more fun to you (honestly).
Having no death penalty would reduce my enjoyment of the game while playing softcore.
Stop trying to partly ruin the game that so many love and so many have been playing WITH the death penalty, working as intended to make the game what it is.

"

Wladicorist1 wrote:

and again my critique against death penalty doesnt have anything to do with my current and previous characters get that in your mind

Your critique against death penalty has everything to do with you dying and therefore why you are dying = your character/playstyle.

"

ACGIFT wrote:

Those same masochists (who so desperately want to pretend they're better players than they are) are trying to push things across all players, and taking the elitist argument of "It's MY game, go play something else!"

That's very ironic.
The only players ho want to shove something down everybody's throat are the one who are bitching about the death penalty to get its removal, not the other way around.
The death penalty has always been there, and for reasons that have been explained many many times, it's here to say, so ... deal with it ?

"

ffogell wrote:

It could be an options like for SSF where you dont lose xp and your are on a different ladder.

Nonsense, people mostly always choose the path of least resistance.

"

robmafia wrote:

the logic/facts in this thread really is top notch.

yep, some things that can be read here are a bit mind-blowing ...

"

ffogell wrote:

Honestly I wish they would drop in and have an official stance on the subject instead of us arguing for x pages on the subject lmao ;)

They HAVE an official stance, they always have had : the death penalty is here to stay.
Do you want them to make a new anouncement about it every week or something ?
Are you going to keep assuming that everything that GGG does not say explicitely about mechanics that have always been in this game is something that they don't have an official stance on ? wth ...

Here is the first offical thread on the subject of the death penalty. 153 pages. Enjoy!

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/169

As far as I know there is no developer diary (precursor of development manifestos) or development manifesto directly referring to the death penalty but my strong recollection is that they have stated multiple times that death MUST have a cost. The fact that they added the death penalty in version 0.7.1 and have not changed it since should tell us something. Especially considering people have been complaining about it for 8 years.

"

Phaeded wrote:

The fact that they added the death penalty in version 0.7.1 and have not changed it since should tell us something. Especially considering people have been complaining about it for 8 years.

This, most people comlpaining won't use their common sense on purpose to keep crying for attention here imho.
Chris said things in podcasts too.

Keep in mind that originally, Path of Exile only had predictive networking mode, and we were told it would "never change," and to "get used to it." Chris Wilson himself even told us rubber-banding was GOOD.

Yeah, people were dumb to complain about it, because those folk who were white-knighting the status quo were 100% right: we never got another networking mode, so we all just had to learn to live with huge amounts of desync all the time.

"

ACGIFT wrote:

Keep in mind that originally, Path of Exile only had predictive networking mode, and we were told it would "never change," and to "get used to it." Chris Wilson himself even told us rubber-banding was GOOD.

Yeah, people were dumb to complain about it, because those folk who were white-knighting the status quo were 100% right: we never got another networking mode, so we all just had to learn to live with huge amounts of desync all the time.

They merely explained why they made the choice to go with a predictive mode and all the technical implications that it had.

Then the number of servers increased, the company grew, and the latency got likely significantly lowered for many.

Then only, they added a predictive mode, they didn't change the predictive mode to lockstep, they left that option still open.


GGG never said anything as stupid as "it's very hard to handle the death penalty properly" or that they had any kind of technical difficulties regarding this though, obviously.
What Chris said, however :
https://novom.ru/en/watch/a11NfvfTDUI
"Death penalty, we're still working on, we don't have as firm plans there, there will stil lbe death penalties in the game" .... and then he throws a rant about SC players complaining about death penalty.

To put this in context, this was when talking about the acts rework ( from (1-4)*3 to 10 acts. Has it changed when the 10 acts were added ?
Of course not.

And whatever the penalty, if there is a penalty that actually "punishes" players for dying, the bitchers will keep bitching, whatever the penalty.
The current one is simple, easy to understand and scales with levels, making it harder to reach the highest level, which is pretty much what is needed imho.

it's funny how inevitably i'm either called a white knight or a hater in every thread i post in.