Poe already scraped the infinite dungeon ... hears why

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Phrazz wrote:

One thing is certain: An "endless" mechanic like this, will distinguish the good from the bad when it comes to builds. The powercreep made the "illusion"(in lack of better words) of build diversity; of course a lot of builds are viable, when the numbers are through the roof. The Delve league will act as a funnel, and we end up with "pushing builds", like D3, where - again - only a handful of builds will be competitive. Everything that's endless will act as a funnel, and only the most powerful will prevail - and we have our self what you guys will refer to as a "Delve META" or "Delve builds".

This is inevitable. And interesting. I think I may like it.

I think it's fine as long as there are separate leaderboards for classes if not ascendancies.

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FrodoFraggins wrote:

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Phrazz wrote:

One thing is certain: An "endless" mechanic like this, will distinguish the good from the bad when it comes to builds. The powercreep made the "illusion"(in lack of better words) of build diversity; of course a lot of builds are viable, when the numbers are through the roof. The Delve league will act as a funnel, and we end up with "pushing builds", like D3, where - again - only a handful of builds will be competitive. Everything that's endless will act as a funnel, and only the most powerful will prevail - and we have our self what you guys will refer to as a "Delve META" or "Delve builds".

This is inevitable. And interesting. I think I may like it.

I think it's fine as long as there are separate leaderboards for classes if not ascendancies.

Yeah, my thoughts exactly.

I think the rest of the game will remain the rest of the game, but we'll see dedicated "Mine Runners/pushers". Even though and endless dungeon will funnel down build diversity, that is - as I said - inevitable in an endless mode. Separate these with class-specific leaderboards will be a must, I think.

I guess it all depends on how the Delve League is being tied to the rest of the game, in terms of XP/loot/maps.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

Spoiler

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Synopse wrote:

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Phrazz wrote:

One thing is certain: An "endless" mechanic like this, will distinguish the good from the bad when it comes to builds. The powercreep made the "illusion"(in lack of better words) of build diversity; of course a lot of builds are viable, when the numbers are through the roof. The Delve league will act as a funnel, and we end up with "pushing builds", like D3, where - again - only a handful of builds will be competitive. Everything that's endless will act as a funnel, and only the most powerful will prevail - and we have our self what you guys will refer to as a "Delve META" or "Delve builds".

This is inevitable. And interesting. I think I may like it.

That is pretty much my impression too (and of many others).
Good for you, if you may like it. I probably will not, because that made me quit D3.
Let's hope the best.

Weve been having fun right? We run some maps, we get some loot, we try and push for xp and we get where we get but we are never actually ladder competitive, were never in the running to be the 1st level 100 in the league. Its never mattered before, we are happy playing the sort of builds we find fun.

Thanks for elaborating why we both (and other) had fun the last years. Yes, I agree on that.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

why is this any different? Why after 5 years of not playing that 1 build that gets xp the fastest and using it to be the number 1 guy on the ladder are people suddenly upset that theres a situation where if they want to be number 1 guy on a ladder they need to play THE build? Just dont play it, youve never played it before, youve never been that guy before and for 5 years youve just played and had fun, so just keep playing and having fun? Whats the issue?

The issue is that I quit D3 because I am sick of playing greater rifts only. They look the same and they feal the same over and over again. It doesn't make a difference for me if you can play at 10, 100, 1000, or what ever. You will hit the wall, feel the frustration, and then you will try to improve. That is fun the first time and for quite a many more times. But then after a (very long) time, I realized that there is no point in improving. I don't see anything new. I just increase a number and the game is still the same. You get stuck in an endless loop. But is it endless? No! The loop is limited by gear, because gear don't scale like the mobs do you kill. Gear stays the same and this make the whole endless thing dumb. Suddently you need the power creep to feel any progress. In D3 this is patchworked with the level gems and enchanting items with them, but equip don't change anymore. You just farm your gem and improve your signature state skaling you progress the best.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

Its just numbers. I played this diablo season, I had a crusader, I cleared a tier 100 grift, there were guys at the time who had cleared, I dunno, 107? something like that. Whats the difference? Nothing, its just a number, its just turning up the numbers on the mobs life and damage a bit.

Well done, but you named it. It is just numbers. The whole illusion of progress is unmasked by the fact that only a single number change and everything else remains the same. Over and over again. And D3 went a long road with plenty of obstacles.

Did you know that when greater rifts started that ppl only got to 45-50? Did you know that every league the was artificial power creep to let ppl experience progress that didn't exist anymore? Did you know that all builds and classes were put on rails (aka sets) to allow ballancing for the TOP players? IMHO D3 was runined just to please the ladder.
Yes, this also happens in PoE, but till now I was able to ignore it most of the time. My concern is that PoE repeats history of D3.

Btw. I played ladder in EU before D3 was overrun by the no-lifers. But I don't care anymore about laders. But there is something I don't want to play again: Turning up the numbers, because there is littery nothing else to do. I played that way to long in D3 and I am done with that.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

Its fun to challenge yourself, challenge your build, carry on enjoying the game you are playing for the experiences you are having. The fun will be about getting 1 more level down, going that bit further than last time, making a new build and seeing how far that can get.

Yse, that is the spirit, and will keep that up as long as I can, but if it becomes turning up numbers, I am gone.

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FrodoFraggins wrote:

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Synopse wrote:

The idea will fail since escorts will slow down clear speed.
Actually, escorts are even worse then timers.
An escort forces you to progress at a given speed.
If you are too slow, you fail, and if you want to go faster, you fail either.

GGG knows that and put an one-shot-mechanic to force all players to play the escorts.
This league is another nail in the coffin.

I will skip the league anyway and play standard. Leagues are not my cup of tea. They are just rushing through gated content.

Maybe it's about clear depth and leaderboards rather than clear speed. Who says it's they're to replace maps?

Maps will be replaced, because they have static monster level. There will be builds that will be able to push beyond tier 16 in the depth. At this point maps will reduced to farming the mats to enter the depth.
That happend in D3 some years and they didn't solved that issue yet.
PoE is in danger to repeat history of D3's greater rifts.

I wouldn't be concerned.
Delve is just a 3 months league event.
It couldn't even make it up to the core game.
Or it could, but with limited impact over the core game. Staying permanently in the mines running it like GR, will be gated behind rare (expensive) material, and certain builds. Just a few would afford it.
Basically, people will run it occasionally, even if becomes core, ever.

The late game of PoE are maps, and it's gonna stay. GGG will never replace maps, for reasons. They may eventually add side activities and that's it.

On a side note, the new trend in the headquarters is about temporary events which later don't go to the core. Just frangments of it eventually do.

So don't worry about GR in PoE and its side effects. There are other things to worry about, it's not one of them.

thing is people dont usually play t16 maps, a more meta behaviour is speed running lower maps that have efficient layouts or lucrative div cards. Efficiency is the driving factor more than the level of the content.

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torturo wrote:

Or it could, but with limited impact over the core game. Staying permanently in the mines running it like GR, will be gated behind rare (expensive) material, and certain builds. Just a few would afford it.

as far as Im aware its self found, the resources you gather go straight to the mining interface I believe? Theres no actual item, you cant trade it.

Oh. If it's like that, there's nothing to worry about side effects, nor could be even compared to GR.

It means quite a lot of rage this league. By meta players capable of pushing the dungeon at high levels, but limited by RNG.
Nothing unusual to ggg's gameplay design, though. Rivers of tears and all.

ya for sure.

I dont think its going to be everyones thing either, people who speedclear burial chambers for doctors arnt gonna switch to this, it doesnt look like efficient content for xp or for wealth. I dont think the money makers will switch from maps and I dont think the xp racers will switch.

It looks more about challenge and exploration, people who want to go up against the hardest thing they can find just to see if they can beat it and people who like the idea of exploring a world and finding cool little hidden things.

I think it will be more popular than running lab, but still that kind of thing, and alternate activity. Some people run lab non stop, but most people dont, and its not the best xp per hour nor the best currency per hour so it will never be the main thing everyone does. Even the people who love it and want to live down there, like you say, theyre gonna have to deal with the rng of finding the materials to run it and that will mean running maps.




People get bored of 1 thing too. D3 is such a limited game, the grifts are fairly similar to rifts, bounties feel like a boring chore to me. Builds are so limited by the gear situation, you need this 6 piece set that then gives you 3000% increased damage and theres maybe 2 or 3 sets that work for your class so its all really confined.

In poe youre gonna have maps, guardians, shaper, elder, lab, incursions, delve, atziri, uber atziri, breach domains, the council, prophecy chains... Im sure more stuff will come, theres gonna be so much to do and you just dont get that with D3.

Youve got targeted div cards, elder/shaper rares, watchers eyes, shaper and elder boss drops, theres plenty of stuff thats exclusive to mapping to the point where if everyone just plays delve 24/7, the market value of those exclusive items will become so high due to rarity that running the map system will become so profitable it will drag a lot of people back.

Endless burial chambers isnt a fun idea, it becomes fun to people when it starts making them a ton of currency.

GGG has maintained the same note through the years and every single league in every single interview: the game is supposed to be hard and end-game content is not supposed to be reached by everyone. This has never changed, they maintained the same vision. I think the people who try to play shitty builds and don't reach something should change THEIR vision, realise that META is a thing in literally every single game in the world, both esports and usual sports, and make peace with that and change how you play.

Every streamer (I take streamers as a model to be followed in terms of skill) have already confirmed you can do all content with nearly any item. So if you're not a good player, please don't force your wrong opinions on others. Please try and get better and stop these ridiculous posts once and for all.

Cheers and GL in Delve!