STOP with this Trading Insanity

Dear people who are making posts like this:
When will you start to realize that as it seems RIGHT NOW the devs are creating a game for them to enjoy instead of most people to enjoy. I can call myself hardcore player since I played way to many games for at least the past 10 years from all of the different genres (and beaten most of them on hardest difficulties unless the game bored me).

Now, the biggest problem I see with the community and devs part is that they seriously believe that outdated and uncomfortable system is hardcore (you can also add RNG, high dmg, high enemies/mobs hp and so on). Any decent player will tell you difficult game means a game you can play in a comfortable way that gives you a challenge in the clever mechanics and not uncomfortable ones. Saying "you can always play solo" means - ignore all the perks the online system has while suffering from the cons (dsync, ping and so on). Saying that going to the FORUMS to trade IN GAME items is retarded because when I play ARPG I am NOT interested in reading forums I am interested in playing the game. And while I can understand that in D2 it worked fine you forget that it was totally viable to play d2 SOLO without the online cons.

Right now the game is poisoned by RNG that works against you. (EVERYTHING in POE is equal to playing a slot-machine)
Mechanics that works against you. (Broken passive tree, limited viable passive tree choices)
Annoying global/trade chat that is mostly spammed by useless things. (Sometimes it goes so fast I cant even start to see what is being sold)
And I wont even go into the other stuff that is just there to ruin your gaming experience.

As in right now, to everyone who wants to fight monsters and not mechanics in ARPG I'd suggest going back to Diablo 2. Because right now there are 3 main games I really tried to like and all 3 of them fall short in most of things.

PS: If you want a challenging game just go play dota or lol or even nox because the uncomfortable grindfest where the game itself just hates you is not a rewarding experience.



tl;dr - playing solo = not viable (ping, dsync and wasted online function). trading = hardly viable (lack of decent trading mechanic). Going to forums to actually beat the game is not viable and if you need THAT explained you do not know what is a good game.

"

karitas wrote:

Trading system is fine. I don't see how people can complain that people who play a lot have an advantage. Oh really? You are making it seem like time put into game shouldn't matter! Maybe play a simpler game like rock paper scissors. In any case, if you want currency, don't act like you can't get it. Maybe it's not for the "optimal" price but there isn't even set values so at worst you pay like 10% more. Oh big fucking deal. There is nothing preventing players from trading, just their fear of being taken advantage of, which is just their own inexperience and lack of information.

It's as if studying more for a test shouldn't even net better grades. Should be on the merit of whether I have the test or not rofl.

What poe should've teach you already: time put in the game worth nothing because drops is a lottery anyway and only thing that you directly influence is your experience bar.

And if the lack of information is a BIG con of POE. If a game fails to explain one of the features it presents in it's "selling argument" then its broken.

So yeah, you are playing fancy rock paper scissors anyway... But with the lack of proper trading it feels like playing rock paper scissors without hands.

"

Demoniq wrote:

GGG said it couple of times that they will never make anything even similar to AH.

TL:DR last paragraph basically sums it up

still an npc who sells items on your behalf for a pre determined set price by you "first in first served" approach could work

i guess this still opens the market to bots snapping up cheap goods for resale... on that note this already happens in trade chat with all the BS c/o.. so unless the scams are stopped in trade then i dont really see a reason why it wouldn't work

maybe the current bullshit current offer spam in trade chat could be fixed by allowing players whom are trying to sell items via a bid to be able to link items with an official C/O tag

for example

Seller: WTS X
Buyer: right click my name click make offer "insert offer amount" send message
Seller: WTS X + ctrl shift click the offer link

that might atleased take some of the scamming out of the trade chat. as no one would beable to make up a bullshit current offer sale because without the official linked C/O no one would believe it

unfortunately this system could also be bypassed by having multiple accounts to bid for you. but it might lessen the scamming a bit :/

I would love to see a soultion that works as neither of my suggestions really work in the end.
the biggest flaw with trying to get a working trade system and keeping item selling for real money at a low is that its impossible to police. F2P or not all games have this issue if the people trying to profit from it are willing to spend on setting up.

"

Srafty wrote:

"

Demoniq wrote:

GGG said it couple of times that they will never make anything even similar to AH.

TL:DR last paragraph basically sums it up

still an npc who sells items on your behalf for a pre determined set price by you "first in first served" approach could work

i guess this still opens the market to bots snapping up cheap goods for resale... on that note this already happens in trade chat with all the BS c/o.. so unless the scams are stopped in trade then i dont really see a reason why it wouldn't work

maybe the current bullshit current offer spam in trade chat could be fixed by allowing players whom are trying to sell items via a bid to be able to link items with an official C/O tag

for example

Seller: WTS X
Buyer: right click my name click make offer "insert offer amount" send message
Seller: WTS X + ctrl shift click the offer link

that might atleased take some of the scamming out of the trade chat. as no one would beable to make up a bullshit current offer sale because without the official linked C/O no one would believe it

unfortunately this system could also be bypassed by having multiple accounts to bid for you. but it might lessen the scamming a bit :/

I would love to see a soultion that works as neither of my suggestions really work in the end.
the biggest flaw with trying to get a working trade system and keeping item selling for real money at a low is that its impossible to police. F2P or not all games have this issue if the people trying to profit from it are willing to spend on setting up.

Right now its the trading is unfriendly towards players while bots and currency sellers can still spam the crap out of the chat.
Trade house can still be exploited by botters.
Trade NPC can still be exploited by botters.
Forum trade can still be exploited by botters.

Either way it WILL BE EXPLOITED so there is no difference in what method you use. Thing that should get a solution is the way normal players can enjoy the online benefits without fighting broken trade mechanics.

"

Kirazor wrote:

Right now its the trading is unfriendly towards players while bots and currency sellers can still spam the crap out of the chat.
Trade house can still be exploited by botters.
Trade NPC can still be exploited by botters.
Forum trade can still be exploited by botters.

Either way it WILL BE EXPLOITED so there is no difference in what method you use. Thing that should get a solution is the way normal players can enjoy the online benefits without fighting broken trade mechanics.

well u said it alot better than i did ;) but my point was based more around the fact that it seems GGG has gone to a rather large extent to try and keep the selling of items \ orbs for real money at a low.. Personaly i cannot of think of a way to do what GGG seems to be after but if they can then i would love it, the easy fix is to just ignore in game for money trading.. but the long term effects is a ruined economy.

what i mean by ruined economy is... players would farm for weeks to get No reward compared to spending 1-2$ at some farmers website... currently ingame items are to expensive to justify spending real money on, for the majority. but if GGG decided to ignore this and do the easy fix then it would turn into a pay to win. something they have stated upon many occasions they are very against.

"

Srafty wrote:

"

Kirazor wrote:

Right now its the trading is unfriendly towards players while bots and currency sellers can still spam the crap out of the chat.
Trade house can still be exploited by botters.
Trade NPC can still be exploited by botters.
Forum trade can still be exploited by botters.

Either way it WILL BE EXPLOITED so there is no difference in what method you use. Thing that should get a solution is the way normal players can enjoy the online benefits without fighting broken trade mechanics.

well u said it alot better than i did ;) but my point was based more around the fact that it seems GGG has gone to a rather large extent to try and keep the selling of items \ orbs for real money at a low.. Personaly i cannot of think of a way to do what GGG seems to be after but if they can then i would love it, the easy fix is to just ignore in game for money trading.. but the long term effects is a ruined economy.

what i mean by ruined economy is... players would farm for weeks to get No reward compared to spending 1-2$ at some farmers website... currently ingame items are to expensive to justify spending real money on, for the majority. but if GGG decided to ignore this and do the easy fix then it would turn into a pay to win. something they have stated upon many occasions they are very against.

Well, how I see it: for most people partying with people is a no-go thanks to dsync/latency/pathing/loot system/bad effect optimization(aka making top-notch video cards overheat)/crashes then add the not comfortable trading and what you get is a laggy single player game... I don't get it, why not create a single player game and just sell it normally instead of the damn cash shop... would save tons of work and money on the server side part.

@kirazor

I totally agree with all the things you have said.
Im glad that there are still some people which common sense wasn't replace by some retarded "hardcore logic".
Here are couple of my statements placed on the forum here and there...

"

TIME CONSUMPTION
What do I mean by that ? I consider myself a decent player. Im not a casual but Im also not a "hardcore player". Although I like to watch other hardcores play (kripp/nguyen streams, etc.) Im not even getting close to their "achievements". this is mostly due to lack of free time. And also my wife is sad when I play too long ;) That is exactly why present "trading system" totally brings me down. I, as well as many many other players out there, just don't have the time to browse forums, look for a good trade, sell my own stuff, try to buy/sell on the chat (which, by the way is one of the worst experiences I have ever had in online games - and I have about 15 years of experience in this matter), etc. I really did try to make sth out of it. Tried to sell some things which in my opinion were decent stuff. Waisted around 1h and sold nothing. Then repeated it couple of times trying to buy or sell sth... Guess my stuff wasn't so good after all... but thats actually not the point. The point is that I wasted couple of hours for nothing. I could spend this time playing game, making some party, throw some ideas/feedback on forums...
People like nugstash should understand that lot of folks out there have lot of every-day duties (school, work, wife, children, house, sports, hobbies, etc.) and we just can't play as much as we want to. And please, do not call us casuals or don;t say "this game is not for you" or "get back to your D3/MMO/WHATEVER" and other retarded stuff like that. Please, consider other people out there and consider the fact that you do not have to use "trading house" if you don;t want to. Some people did same thing in D3 to make game FOR THEMSELVES even harder.
And one more thing... if GGG actually wants a game available only for most hardcore players out there, then it is ok. But please state it clearly at your home page, so people know that this game is not for them. I think it would be fair and square.

"

If "Trading isn't required for progress, so neither is an auction house" then why this game is "online" only ? Why not make it single player on local computer ? You would definitely get rid of some issues like for example dsync. I bet lot of people would prefer such an options if they are playing solo ALREADY :>

"

Let me introduce to you 99% of "trading "interaction" and "socializing":

P1) WTS XXX item /alchemy
P2) I will buy
P1) <opens trade window> -> accepts
P2) <accepts>
P1) ty
P2) thanks

P1) WTS XXX pm me
P2) what do you want for it ?
P1) offer
P2) 1x chance or alchemy
P1) no
P2) so... what do you propose ?
P1) <no response>
P2) 1x chance AND 1x alchemy
P1) <no response> (player IS online)
P2) pm me if you want
P1) <never response>

ETC.

"

If YOU do not require AH to play - fine - DO NOT USE IT. But stop telling people what THEY should use or not. I personally do not have time for forum browsing, auctioning, trade chat spamming, using broken poe.xyz that shows you offers not viable long ago, etc. etc.
I want to play a game and if possible I want to trade with people as easy as I can.
Your current bullshit-system is viable only for people that play daily FOR HOURS. A newbie will be scammed right away because he doesn't know the "prices" nor the "worthiness" of specific things/items. The current system does not support fare trade "globally". Its just piece of crap that you are so much protecting.
I assume that in real life you threw away all you credit cards, you stopped using internet for "money transfer", etc.

"

I got a question for the devs and for all the people that protects this lame-ass chat/forum trading system .
Why the shop transactions on PoE site are so fast and easy ? Why don't the devs meet with the gamers face to face and barter with them ? Why are you using currency in the first place ? Why are you using credit card payments as well as paypal ? For convenience MAYBE ?

You are all just a bunch of hypocrites

There is absolutely no efficiency in current system.
The game favours only "hardcore" gamers with no families and LOT of spare time
There is no room for casual/no-multiboxing gaming

"

Demoniq wrote:

@kirazor

I totally agree with all the things you have said.
Im glad that there are still some people which common sense wasn't replace by some retarded "hardcore logic".
Here are couple of my statements placed on the forum here and there...

"

TIME CONSUMPTION
What do I mean by that ? I consider myself a decent player. Im not a casual but Im also not a "hardcore player". Although I like to watch other hardcores play (kripp/nguyen streams, etc.) Im not even getting close to their "achievements". this is mostly due to lack of free time. And also my wife is sad when I play too long ;) That is exactly why present "trading system" totally brings me down. I, as well as many many other players out there, just don't have the time to browse forums, look for a good trade, sell my own stuff, try to buy/sell on the chat (which, by the way is one of the worst experiences I have ever had in online games - and I have about 15 years of experience in this matter), etc. I really did try to make sth out of it. Tried to sell some things which in my opinion were decent stuff. Waisted around 1h and sold nothing. Then repeated it couple of times trying to buy or sell sth... Guess my stuff wasn't so good after all... but thats actually not the point. The point is that I wasted couple of hours for nothing. I could spend this time playing game, making some party, throw some ideas/feedback on forums...
People like nugstash should understand that lot of folks out there have lot of every-day duties (school, work, wife, children, house, sports, hobbies, etc.) and we just can't play as much as we want to. And please, do not call us casuals or don;t say "this game is not for you" or "get back to your D3/MMO/WHATEVER" and other retarded stuff like that. Please, consider other people out there and consider the fact that you do not have to use "trading house" if you don;t want to. Some people did same thing in D3 to make game FOR THEMSELVES even harder.
And one more thing... if GGG actually wants a game available only for most hardcore players out there, then it is ok. But please state it clearly at your home page, so people know that this game is not for them. I think it would be fair and square.

"

If "Trading isn't required for progress, so neither is an auction house" then why this game is "online" only ? Why not make it single player on local computer ? You would definitely get rid of some issues like for example dsync. I bet lot of people would prefer such an options if they are playing solo ALREADY :>

"

Let me introduce to you 99% of "trading "interaction" and "socializing":

P1) WTS XXX item /alchemy
P2) I will buy
P1) <opens trade window> -> accepts
P2) <accepts>
P1) ty
P2) thanks

P1) WTS XXX pm me
P2) what do you want for it ?
P1) offer
P2) 1x chance or alchemy
P1) no
P2) so... what do you propose ?
P1) <no response>
P2) 1x chance AND 1x alchemy
P1) <no response> (player IS online)
P2) pm me if you want
P1) <never response>

ETC.

"

If YOU do not require AH to play - fine - DO NOT USE IT. But stop telling people what THEY should use or not. I personally do not have time for forum browsing, auctioning, trade chat spamming, using broken poe.xyz that shows you offers not viable long ago, etc. etc.
I want to play a game and if possible I want to trade with people as easy as I can.
Your current bullshit-system is viable only for people that play daily FOR HOURS. A newbie will be scammed right away because he doesn't know the "prices" nor the "worthiness" of specific things/items. The current system does not support fare trade "globally". Its just piece of crap that you are so much protecting.
I assume that in real life you threw away all you credit cards, you stopped using internet for "money transfer", etc.

"

I got a question for the devs and for all the people that protects this lame-ass chat/forum trading system .
Why the shop transactions on PoE site are so fast and easy ? Why don't the devs meet with the gamers face to face and barter with them ? Why are you using currency in the first place ? Why are you using credit card payments as well as paypal ? For convenience MAYBE ?

You are all just a bunch of hypocrites

There is absolutely no efficiency in current system. There is a reason we don't trade sheep and cows as currency these days irl, but in pc games we just go back
The game favours only "hardcore" gamers with no families and LOT of spare time This games spits on the meaning hardcore and lifeless people who can grind well feel good about themselves cause the game tells them its hardcore. Hardcore player is one who has experience in many games and will not spent time in a game that is poorly designed without a proper challange, therefore enough reasonable people stay on the forums but never log in the game. (aka this game is hardly hard core, Hell, its hardly hard XD
There is no room for casual/no-multiboxing gamingSame comment as above.

Dear people, whoever says the more time you need to do same mindless farming is hardcore - you should play korean mmorpgs because hard core does not mean time consumption, hardcore gaming means CHALLENGE not GRIND. gg wp

"

Finkenstein wrote:

Hi
I concur this economy is broken...
GGG could increase the drops of higher level orbs/ or monsters start dropping fragments to higher lvl orbs often enough to be able to create higher level orbs, vendors sell all orbs thus SETTING THE CURRENCY STANDARD and allowing otherwise useless low level orbs to be useful in trading with vendor for better orbs...GGG will you please stand up and set the standard?, instead of letting third party websites set the standard of YOUR orb economy.

Also perhaps we,as players, could stop trading with the greedy f*cks who constantly attempt to raise the price on everything, remember it is us who decides to give the deustchebag the orbs at the rate they want instead of trying to haggle/ find someone else for a more reasonable rate.

An AH won't fix anything unless this inflation is dealt with first, it will do the opposite and increase the inflation.

The harder GGG makes this game the more gear dependent our characters become then we need to trade more... Do the DEV'S not realize this? Or are they to busy playing with their godly items?

Cheers

If people would stop being sheep and just make their own judgments on the worth of their orbs, it would be fine. It's that these people empower the third party websites by only following their ratios.

Also, would like to add that people who play "casually" think that they shouldn't have to overpay to get items they want. Yet they still want to play less and know less about the trading values. I think if you spend less time in the game, you shouldn't complain that you aren't getting the best deal and accept you may be paying more than others for the same items.

"

karitas wrote:

"

Finkenstein wrote:

Hi
I concur this economy is broken...
GGG could increase the drops of higher level orbs/ or monsters start dropping fragments to higher lvl orbs often enough to be able to create higher level orbs, vendors sell all orbs thus SETTING THE CURRENCY STANDARD and allowing otherwise useless low level orbs to be useful in trading with vendor for better orbs...GGG will you please stand up and set the standard?, instead of letting third party websites set the standard of YOUR orb economy.

Also perhaps we,as players, could stop trading with the greedy f*cks who constantly attempt to raise the price on everything, remember it is us who decides to give the deustchebag the orbs at the rate they want instead of trying to haggle/ find someone else for a more reasonable rate.

An AH won't fix anything unless this inflation is dealt with first, it will do the opposite and increase the inflation.

The harder GGG makes this game the more gear dependent our characters become then we need to trade more... Do the DEV'S not realize this? Or are they to busy playing with their godly items?

Cheers

If people would stop being sheep and just make their own judgments on the worth of their orbs, it would be fine. It's that these people empower the third party websites by only following their ratios.

Also, would like to add that people who play "casually" think that they shouldn't have to overpay to get items they want. Yet they still want to play less and know less about the trading values. I think if you spend less time in the game, you shouldn't complain that you aren't getting the best deal and accept you may be paying more than others for the same items.

Considering the game is casual as it is right now anyway so having no easier trading option just makes it more complicated and not more interesting. Of course unless you believe that grind=hardcore (and if you do that in my view your point is null)