GGG's argument about AH/state of trade that is grinding my gears - 2018 edition

If you actually read my posts this would be easier.

An in game trading system would make people trade more.
The more a person trades the less is that person relying on self-found and self-crafted gear.

i am surprised that ggg added their 'official' indexer, but didn't make any sort of interface for searching listed items while using the game client.

or even a link from the client to their indexer (ie: like their mtx links to the webpage).

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Sickness wrote:

If people trade more it will shit the balance away from self-crafted and self-found gear.

Most likely the best thing I've seen from Sickness in 6 years of posting. Brilliant stuff.

"

Sickness wrote:

If you actually read my posts this would be easier.

An in game trading system would make people trade more.
The more a person trades the less is that person relying on self-found and self-crafted gear.

And that's only an issue in your head.

For example, let's follow your train of thought a bit further.

Why doesn't GGG increase the drop-rate of exalts? Devaluating it's value compared to existing perceived item mod value of the community?

Obviously price ranges of item vs exalts would go up.

Suddenly exalts become less of a commodity and the underlying principle of "is this exalt worth it to craft item X or should i purchase from the market with it" becomes a lot more in favor for crafting.

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I already explained two pages ago that crafting IS already in the game thus there is no need to force it on people like your suggesting at earlier stages of character development.(either you need a niche item which the market can't provide, or you want an extremely well rolled item with specific high tier rolls also not available for purchase on the market)


And i already explained how an economy driven game already propels it's community members to pick up loot.(self-found)

1) for own use
2) to sell on the market

You seem to be convinced GGG want's nobody to trade, yet they enabled trading in their game. Hell they even made it one of the cornerstones of their game.(relative value of items compared to one another)

Even Chris himself states that it is trade that enables an item to have it's perceived value which makes it fun and that they love that.(think 1000 life's legacy kaoms etc)

You seem hell-bend on excluding parts of the community to trading, which is detrimental to the game as a whole.(think how the economy comes to a stand-still two months into the league etc, rapidly decreasing the activity within a league itself)

Your pretending to know something GGG desires while they clearly stated in multiple podcast's and deducted from their behavior and actions that it is the exact opposite.

Go listen to some of the podcast's chris appears in and listen when they discuss trade.

Peace,

-Boem-

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robmafia wrote:

i am surprised that ggg added their 'official' indexer, but didn't make any sort of interface for searching listed items while using the game client.

or even a link from the client to their indexer (ie: like their mtx links to the webpage).

I'm not. Their official indexer exists for one reason: in case poe.trade goes down. It wasn't intended as a replacement because GGG aren't stupid enough to think people will change their ways with zero incentive to do so. Poe.trade works just fine, albeit with some pretty damn shady undercurrents. Works fine? Fine. Less work for GGG, and they can focus on other things. For now.

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The_Scourge wrote:

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Sickness wrote:

If people trade more it will shit the balance away from self-crafted and self-found gear.

Most likely the best thing I've seen from Sickness in 6 years of posting. Brilliant stuff.

1) what balance?

2) GGG moved themselves to this position, well before PoE trade came along.(Crafting yourself was never more rewarding then participation in the economy of PoE, it wasn't five years back and it still isn't)

I'm not saying i would mind a change like that, but by virtue of enabling trade within their game they themselves veto'd against it.

We have SSF for that type of game-play.

His argument is baseless and illogical.

Peace,

-Boem-

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Chris wrote:

Easy trade means reducing drop rates
Compare two hypothetical games. In the first game, trade is very difficult. The majority of items that can't be used by your character are not traded to other people. In the second game, trade is very easy. Many of the items that you can't use are traded to other people for items that you can. In the second game, because of trade, you have a much higher acquisition rate of useful items. While that sounds great if you want instant gratification, in reality it means that the second game either receives reduced drop rates relative to the first, or ends up being a whole lot easier and less challenging to achieve goals in.

I think this quote right here, is a major part in this discussion. This is a no-brainer. The easier/more convenient trade is, the easier it is to acquire gear. The easier it is to acquire gear, the easier the game is. If they decided to implement an "in-game point and click system", they would have to compensate elsewhere to keep the difficulty they want the game to have. D3 developers have said the same thing debating the D3 AH. No matter how you turn the table, drops are important to players. A lot of players. Even if they're not SSF.

But this does not mean that the API can't be "closed", and that trade could be more moderated than it is. I'm 100% against an AH, but 100% agree that the system we have to day isn't perfect. But as I've said before: "I want to sell/buy items faster" and "I want more convenient trade" can't be the main arguments in this debate. The GAME, the IN-GAME progression and EVERY player needs to be the main focus.

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Phrazz wrote:

"

Chris wrote:

Easy trade means reducing drop rates
Compare two hypothetical games. In the first game, trade is very difficult. The majority of items that can't be used by your character are not traded to other people. In the second game, trade is very easy. Many of the items that you can't use are traded to other people for items that you can. In the second game, because of trade, you have a much higher acquisition rate of useful items. While that sounds great if you want instant gratification, in reality it means that the second game either receives reduced drop rates relative to the first, or ends up being a whole lot easier and less challenging to achieve goals in.

I think this quote right here, is a major part in this discussion. This is a no-brainer. The easier/more convenient trade is, the easier it is to acquire gear. The easier it is to acquire gear, the easier the game is. If they decided to implement an "in-game point and click system", they would have to compensate elsewhere to keep the difficulty they want the game to have. D3 developers have said the same thing debating the D3 AH. No matter how you turn the table, drops are important to players. A lot of players. Even if they're not SSF.

But this does not mean that the API can't be "closed", and that trade could be more moderated than it is. I'm 100% against an AH, but 100% agree that the system we have to day isn't perfect. But as I've said before: "I want to sell/buy items faster" and "I want more convenient trade" can't be the main arguments in this debate. The GAME, the IN-GAME progression and EVERY player needs to be the main focus.

It is note worthy that he was addressing community concerns regarding an "instant buy-out" functionality added to trading. Which speeds up the process of acquiring gear while also making it prone to scripted bots.
(the post was made when the community was up in arms about an AH style of trade and off-line functionality's)

Nothing in his post detracts from the fact they could add the current form of trade in the game engine itself.

Peace,

-Boem-

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Boem wrote:

It is note worthy that he was addressing community concerns regarding an "instant buy-out" functionality added to trading. Which speeds up the process of acquiring gear while also making it prone to scripted bots.
(the post was made when the community was up in arms about an AH style of trade and off-line functionality's)

Nothing in his post detracts from the fact they could add the current form of trade in the game engine itself.

Peace,

-Boem-

Fair enough, but you have some of those players in this thread, wanting an instant-buyout AH solely because "they want to buy and sell items faster and more convenient". Not because it's more "Newbie friendly" in terms of the learning curve or whatever.

As I said, I'm not against a better system. Not against an in-game system. I'm against a system that would "break" the game for players only trading once in a while when they really need to, and not playing the market 24/7 to be as rich as possible.

"

Phrazz wrote:

"

Boem wrote:

It is note worthy that he was addressing community concerns regarding an "instant buy-out" functionality added to trading. Which speeds up the process of acquiring gear while also making it prone to scripted bots.
(the post was made when the community was up in arms about an AH style of trade and off-line functionality's)

Nothing in his post detracts from the fact they could add the current form of trade in the game engine itself.

Peace,

-Boem-

Fair enough, but you have some of those players in this thread, wanting an instant-buyout AH solely because "they want to buy and sell items faster and more convenient". Not because it's more "Newbie friendly" in terms of the learning curve or whatever.

As I said, I'm not against a better system. Not against an in-game system. I'm against a system that would "break" the game for players only trading once in a while when they really need to, and not playing the market 24/7 to be as rich as possible.

I want players to find the "market place" conveniently, i don't want trading itself to be more convenient.

Peace,

-Boem-