GGG's argument about AH/state of trade that is grinding my gears - 2018 edition

People say AH would ruin poe because of blah blah blah <insert reason/s>

I hate acts
I also hate current form of trading

This combination makes it very unlikely i will play more than 2-3 build every league so i stop playing rather fast (or maybe i stop playing because leagues are boring?).

At this point i don't care much anymore about AH. First they must fix how boring leagues are.

But for sure it would be nice to have AH

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Miazga wrote:

POE should be a casual game with hardcore complex mechanics. Like all good ARPG's, 95% of the game should be easy to understand, while the remining 5% complex and requireing a lot of knowledge and game experaince. This what make diffrence between people who make they own builds and copy and paste users.

...like diablo 2, where the best items were e-bugged armors and blue armors ('jeweler's, iirc') from vendors? and 3/20/20s?

things that probably 99% of the people had no idea about?

as far as trading goes, poe was/is a lot like d2. for obvious reasons...

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Miazga wrote:

Gearing wise, I'm sure that more that 90% of playerbase get all gear from trade anyway, so AH would bring no harm or big changes. You would still do the usual "click to buy" and item is yours, instead of click "whisper" and paste text ingame. There is no player interaction anyway, most people dont even say "ty" after trade. that only 2 letters! and yet it's to much hussle for most, hard to call that player interaction while trading

i trade often and i always say some sort of sentence. all too often, people talk back. i made a lot of buddies (and got people to check out pvp) that way. so while i know most people act like robots, there is still a good deal of interaction to be had. but it's a 2-way street.

why do you want to spoil a new players experience of finding items himself by giving him perfect and easy to use trade tools?

i would rather enforce ssf on new players until they did beat the regular game with an char.

and there are more complicated mechanics to learn for new players than the fact that advertised item prices aren't real and, when trading, you can only rely on things which are in the trade window when you hit the trade button.

What i want is in-game functionality.

Nothing about trading needs to be changed(method utilized currently as a baseline) to accommodate players, what i do find relevant is the fact people need to move to outside sources to accomplish those tasks.

Then again this falls in line with many of the things i find troublesome within the current state of the game.

- log out macro, why exactly isn't this implemented as a UI button inside the core functionality of the game if it is indeed a "requirement" for a player to experience the game.(deduction based on GGG statement around log out macro's utility as a balance tool)

- PoE trade, why doesn't GGG have it's own indexer that accumulates the data and makes it directly available inside the game environment(with same utility as currently available)

- macro's that are currently allowed by GGG (price comparison tools etc to actively gauge price value's within the economic environment)
What's the justification for not building these into the core game if they are allowed. They obviously grant an advantage to the users else they would not be developed as third-party-tools and since they are allowed by GGG why not build them in?

It is extremely confusing that GGG states themselves that the economy is a fundamental and important part of the game, yet have done nothing to actually incorporate it within the game's environment.

Even GGG's own alternative to PoE.trade is a fucking web-page based indexer, rather then an incorporated trade search index tool in-game. That's saying a lot in my opinion and shows how disconnected they are with actual QoL improvements.

Peace,

-Boem-

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cronus wrote:

why do you want to spoil a new players experience of finding items himself by giving him perfect and easy to use trade tools?

i would rather enforce ssf on new players until they did beat the regular game with an char.

Why spoil the HC experience for him, in that way? Why don't we add HC to the mix?
How about we add temporal chains to every area for the first play-through, so that they learn mechanics?

Got any other absurd suggestions? I mean, sure, you may not care about player retention, but I think GGG would love to hook some more players, so that they, you know, buy some shit and keep the lights on without having to resort to 15$ map stash tabs?

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Boem wrote:

Even GGG's own alternative to PoE.trade is a fucking web-page based indexer, rather then an incorporated trade search index tool in-game. That's saying a lot in my opinion and shows how disconnected they are with actual QoL improvements.

No. They made a web-page based indexer because they did not want to create a more efficient trading system than what was out there, only an official one.

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Sickness wrote:

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Boem wrote:

Even GGG's own alternative to PoE.trade is a fucking web-page based indexer, rather then an incorporated trade search index tool in-game. That's saying a lot in my opinion and shows how disconnected they are with actual QoL improvements.

No. They made a web-page based indexer because they did not want to create a more efficient trading system than what was out there, only an official one.

If your saying that putting it in-game would be more efficient then that's not my definition of efficiency.

If your arguing that i somehow hinted at making it in-game and giving it more efficiency compared to current third party trading indexers then you failed to understand my post.

I don't particularly find having to press one-less button a size-able increase in efficiency.(alt-tab)
But it makes a world of difference in therms of QoL and player-friendliness.
It also makes the game as an experience tremendously better.

If GGG states themselves that trading is a core part of their game, then their aim should be to get everybody that plays to interact with it's trading system.
You can't state on the one hand "trading is a fundamental part of our game" and on the other hand obfuscate it's existence in such a way that it detracts people from experiencing it.

That's simply bad design or fundamental direction of the game.

Peace,

-Boem-

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Boem wrote:

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Sickness wrote:

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Boem wrote:

Even GGG's own alternative to PoE.trade is a fucking web-page based indexer, rather then an incorporated trade search index tool in-game. That's saying a lot in my opinion and shows how disconnected they are with actual QoL improvements.

No. They made a web-page based indexer because they did not want to create a more efficient trading system than what was out there, only an official one.

If your saying that putting it in-game would be more efficient then that's not my definition of efficiency.

If your arguing that i somehow hinted at making it in-game and giving it more efficiency compared to current third party trading indexers then you failed to understand my post.

I don't particularly find having to press one-less button a size-able increase in efficiency.(alt-tab)
But it makes a world of difference in therms of QoL and player-friendliness.
It also makes the game as an experience tremendously better.

If GGG states themselves that trading is a core part of their game, then their aim should be to get everybody that plays to interact with it's trading system.
You can't state on the one hand "trading is a fundamental part of our game" and on the other hand obfuscate it's existence in such a way that it detracts people from experiencing it.

That's simply bad design or fundamental direction of the game.

Peace,

-Boem-

You admit that having it out side of the game creates a barrier.
Well that's the point. Removing that barrier would make it more accessible and thus detract from the self-loot and self-craft aspect of the game.

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Sickness wrote:

You admit that having it out side of the game creates a barrier.
Well that's the point. Removing that barrier would make it more accessible and thus detract from the self-loot and self-craft aspect of the game.

Cherry picking is fine, but what about the rest of my post.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : also, if you believe the market can provide "all items" required to fully max out a character you are not playing PoE at the best of possible ability.

There very much is a wall that the market doesn't overcome, unless where taking permanent league's into account, which i do not.

The need to self-loot in an economy based model is present by default, since you want to find loot yourself for

a) utilizing yourself
b) sell to other people

The self-craft aspect comes into play when the market cannot fulfill your needs

a) niche build without much community visibility(reducing it's perceived value and thus disabling it from the "self-loot" tables for most if not all players)
b) high tier base-line items (5x/6x tier 1 items)

Why do you think rich players end up crafting pieces for their characters if this where not the case? Why even craft if by default you assume the market can meet any demands forced on it?