GGG's argument about AH/state of trade that is grinding my gears - 2018 edition

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Perq wrote:

So, things are usually bad so PoE should also be bad in that matter? o_o
And don't you think that adding information in clearly visible place would be easier than answering every single person on forums?

Have you ever seen a sticker that said OUT OF SERVICE? So, you know, someone doesn't have to try getting an elevator, and then going to maintenance to tell them that the elevator doesn't work?

Things are usually THAT WAY, not bad. Don't see your connections. Adding information impossible to research yourself - yes, holding hand all the way - no.

Just because it would be easier to drive on a straight track - doesn't meant it would be better.

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Perq wrote:

I fail to see your point here.

My point is that i think trading through forum was good, without any indexers or searches. Yet everybody want everything easier and easier - what's wrong with some struggle? Making something easier doesn't mean improving it.
That's how i see the great future with that mentality (WALL-E, nice movie)

I dont get how is can be so hard to understand the trade-off between trading and looting.
Sure, you may prefer a game where 99.9% of youur gear come from effortless one-click buyouts, but to believe that this has no other consequences and would not negatively affect anyone is just stupid.

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ggg wrote:

There is already a disparity between 1% and more casual players. AH would be more efficient therefore making the disparity even worse.

...no idea why you don't believe the above, it's dead-on.

people who understand poeconomics routinely and easily amass a ton of wealth. automate it, and it would just make it even easier/faster.

that said, the game's already turned into pathofcasualcandycrush, so maybe they should just go all-in with their casual catering and make an AH.

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Sickness wrote:

I dont get how is can be so hard to understand the trade-off between trading and looting.
Sure, you may prefer a game where 99.9% of youur gear come from effortless one-click buyouts, but to believe that this has no other consequences and would not negatively affect anyone is just stupid.

Then explain yourself. We're all dumb here, so you have to enlighten us.

Your attitude aside, if you want to take part in the discussion, present some points instead of making personal remarks/calling people stupid.

That said, your alleged points are not even solid enough. People use poe.trade as much as they can, and those who do not simply fall behind. If 99,9% of the gear comes from effortless clicking, what difference does it make if we make it easier? With this bit you made your own point irrelevant.
Also, you're arguing against points I did not make. I (on purpose) highlighted that I'm not talking about making the trade more efficient/AH. It is about clarity for new players.

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robmafia wrote:

people who understand poeconomics routinely and easily amass a ton of wealth. automate it, and it would just make it even easier/faster.

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To make it clear - I'm not arguing about adding AH here.

This thread is not about AH. [Removed by Support] please don't try making it about yourself/myself. If you don't have anything to do that is ON TOPIC, refrain from inflaming pointless discussion. If you have something to say to me, us PM option.

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My point is that i think trading through forum was good, without any indexers or searches. Yet everybody want everything easier and easier - what's wrong with some struggle? Making something easier doesn't mean improving it.

Are you using poe.trade/indexers, or are you using forums to trade? And if people used your mentality, we'd be carrying stuff on our back to dark, cold room.
Laziness is what drives people to progress. If you think this is a terrible thing because you misunderstood the message of an animated movie for kids... well, what can I tell you.

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robmafia wrote:

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ggg wrote:

There is already a disparity between 1% and more casual players. AH would be more efficient therefore making the disparity even worse.

...no idea why you don't believe the above, it's dead-on.

people who understand poeconomics routinely and easily amass a ton of wealth. automate it, and it would just make it even easier/faster.

that said, the game's already turned into pathofcasualcandycrush, so maybe they should just go all-in with their casual catering and make an AH.

POE should be a casual game with hardcore complex mechanics. Like all good ARPG's, 95% of the game should be easy to understand, while the remining 5% complex and requireing a lot of knowledge and game experaince. This what make diffrence between people who make they own builds and copy and paste users.

Gearing wise, I'm sure that more that 90% of playerbase get all gear from trade anyway, so AH would bring no harm or big changes. You would still do the usual "click to buy" and item is yours, instead of click "whisper" and paste text ingame. There is no player interaction anyway, most people dont even say "ty" after trade. that only 2 letters! and yet it's to much hussle for most, hard to call that player interaction while trading

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Perq wrote:

This thread is not about AH. I know you're butthurt/mad at me because of the other thread, but please don't try making it about yourself/myself. If you don't have anything to do that is ON TOPIC, refrain from inflaming pointless discussion. If you have something to say to me, us PM option.

wtf?

1. the thread IS about an AH.
2. my reading comprehension is just fine, as evident by my 100% relevant subject matter of explaining that ggg's stance that you were supposed to be refuting (but never actually did) is actually correct. you'll notice that i never said anything about whether you want an AH or not, but kept it 100% on topic about ggg's quoted position.
3. now it's about you and me? [Removed by Support] this is a public forum. i made a relevant response and you just hypocritically threw a ton of accusations/namecalling at me, while criticizing 'inflammation' that only you did.

[Removed by Support]

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Perq wrote:

Then explain yourself. We're all dumb here, so you have to enlighten us.

Your attitude aside, if you want to take part in the discussion, present some points instead of making personal remarks/calling people stupid.

That said, your alleged points are not even solid enough. People use poe.trade as much as they can, and those who do not simply fall behind. If 99,9% of the gear comes from effortless clicking, what difference does it make if we make it easier? With this bit you made your own point irrelevant.
Also, you're arguing against points I did not make. I (on purpose) highlighted that I'm not talking about making the trade more efficient/AH. It is about clarity for new players.

Since this is "PoE needs and AH" thread number 29361282 I did not bother explaining myself in detail.
The point I am making is found on GGG's manifesto also.

I don't use poe.trade "as much as I can" because it's a hassle. Therefor far less than 99.9% of the gear I use comes from trading, the hassle means that dropped and self crafted loot can more easily keep up.

So the point is really that the more efficient trading is the harder it gets for dropped and self crafted loot to keep up. It's fine if you think the pros outweigh the cons of that, but trying to argue that there are no downsides is just ignorant.

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Sickness wrote:

Since this is "PoE needs and AH" thread number 29361282 I did not bother explaining myself in detail.
The point I am making is found on GGG's manifesto also.

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Perq wrote:

To make it clear - I'm not arguing about adding AH here. In my opinion AH isn't even necessary.

Too bad you also didn't bother to read the thread. -_-

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Sickness wrote:

I don't use poe.trade "as much as I can" because it's a hassle. Therefor far less than 99.9% of the gear I use comes from trading, the hassle means that dropped and self crafted loot can more easily keep up.

So the point is really that the more efficient trading is the harder it gets for dropped and self crafted loot to keep up. It's fine if you think the pros outweigh the cons of that, but trying to argue that there are no downsides is just ignorant.

You don't use it therefore people don't use it. 11/10.
Also, what you wrote is exactly the logic that GGG is using. I've explained the other side of the problem. I already know GGG's explanation. You don't need to parrot it here.

Instead, try addressing what I wrote. And one more time - I'm not arguing to add AH. AH ISN'T NEEDED TO IMPROVE THE SITUATION. Stop. Trying. To. Make. It. My. Point. Thank you.

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Perq wrote:

You don't use it therefore people don't use it. 11/10.

You use it therefore people use it. 11/10.

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Perq wrote:

Also, what you wrote is exactly the logic that GGG is using. I've explained the other side of the problem. I already know GGG's explanation. You don't need to parrot it here.

Reading the replies in this thread is actually is needed to be repeated.
I don't know what efficient trading system you are clamouring for, but it will still follow the same principles.

'normies' will never trade using tabs (even less so using aquisition), i can tell you this as an IT-support employee.

If this is what GGG wants, thats fine I guess. Still they have oriented more and more towards a more 'modern' experience