Prizes should be different for hardcore and softcore, why would i play hardcore?

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It's far simpler to convey, as GGG has, that SSF / trade and softcore / hardcore are different game modes which offer different risk / return profiles and you pick the one(s) you like.

N-nope. Opting for higher challenge is not the same as opting for higher risk/reward ratio.

Personally i wouldn't care if chance to get anything except box was a flat %, like 0.5% for each character 90+ lvl, which is even lower than it is now. But we have a limited prize pool divided across all characters which turns it into a competition - and competition must be fair.

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LaiTash wrote:

"

It's far simpler to convey, as GGG has, that SSF / trade and softcore / hardcore are different game modes which offer different risk / return profiles and you pick the one(s) you like.

N-nope. Opting for higher challenge is not the same as opting for higher risk/reward ratio.

Personally i wouldn't care if chance to get anything except box was a flat %, like 0.5% for each character 90+ lvl, which is even lower than it is now. But we have a limited prize pool divided across all characters which turns it into a competition - and competition must be fair.

yeah.. but is it fair to force people to play softcore? because it makes no sense to play hardcore if you really want the rewards.

And yes, hardcore is harder than softcore. You die once on hardcore. Not sure how people can say otherwise.

Right now softcore got a easier time getting the same rewards as a hardcore player. Thats not fair.

Neah, until PoE doesn't get an offline mode, Hardcore needs to account for the "instant log out" as a "Holy Grail" of escaping certain "death is certain" situations.

The only people that do play Hardcore currently in PoE are those that "nerf" themselves via hard/soft caps on that, and/or for SSF too (I'm mainly talking about those that delete their characters on Softcore for any deaths not related to connection problems, and due to PoE "perfect" stability, all that want to not feel they lost progression independent of their skillplay should EVER play differently, and the same applies for SSF, where some players like our @TheAnuhart played that way for years before SSF become an actual league)...

So first, GGG needs to get Hardcore in PoE in the right way, and keep reducing the options regarding "chickening out" of tough to deals situations, if we're meant to talk about that - and no, having even "godlike" players use the "log out" option as a way to bypass "scary stuff" doesn't bring anything "Hardcore" to PoE...

Having a separate set of colours for the MTXs would be great, but as soon as they go that way, some will say that they should also adapt challenges accordingly, and at least for a part, they would be right...

PS: GGG needs to encourage taking more calculated risks when playing, no matter the Softcore/Hardcore debacle, as the current danger/reward ratios are so skewed that it's underwhelming to see the current state and not "sigh"...

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sofocle10000 wrote:

Neah, until PoE doesn't get an offline mode, Hardcore needs to account for the "instant log out" as a "Holy Grail" of escaping certain "death is certain" situations.

The only people that do play Hardcore currently in PoE are those that "nerf" themselves via hard/soft caps on that, and/or for SSF too (I'm mainly talking about those that delete their characters on Softcore for any deaths not related to connection problems, and due to PoE "perfect" stability, all that want to not feel they lost progression independent of their skillplay should EVER play differently, and the same applies for SSF, where some players like our @TheAnuhart played that way for years before SSF become an actual league)...

So first, GGG needs to get Hardcore in PoE in the right way, and keep reducing the options regarding "chickening out" of tough to deals situations, if we're meant to talk about that - and no, having even "godlike" players use the "log out" option as a way to bypass "scary stuff" doesn't bring anything "Hardcore" to PoE...

Having a separate set of colours for the MTXs would be great, but as soon as they go that way, some will say that they should also adapt challenges accordingly, and at least for a part, they would be right...

PS: GGG needs to encourage taking more calculated risks when playing, no matter the Softcore/Hardcore debacle, as the current danger/reward ratios are so skewed that it's underwhelming to see the current state and not "sigh"...

Insta logouts and how much hardcore poe is has nothing to do with the fact that it is still easier to get the rewards on softcore. PLease stay on topic and if you want to discuss logouts and other things further make a new thread about it.

This thread is about prizes being the same on hardcore and softcore and it promotes softcore league rather than what i want and that is hardcore.

Anubis2108 - uhm, i actually agree with you - higher risk and lower reward lead to higher risk/reward ratio.

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sofocle10000 wrote:

Hardcore needs to account for the "instant log out" as a "Holy Grail" of escaping certain "death is certain" situations.

If instant log out is too be removed, there should be no "death is certain" situations in the first place.

Even Chris himself said that they balance PoE around instang log out. It makes the game a little easier for HC players, but it doesn't make it as easy as SC.

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Anubis2108 wrote:

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LaiTash wrote:

"

It's far simpler to convey, as GGG has, that SSF / trade and softcore / hardcore are different game modes which offer different risk / return profiles and you pick the one(s) you like.

N-nope. Opting for higher challenge is not the same as opting for higher risk/reward ratio.

Personally i wouldn't care if chance to get anything except box was a flat %, like 0.5% for each character 90+ lvl, which is even lower than it is now. But we have a limited prize pool divided across all characters which turns it into a competition - and competition must be fair.

yeah.. but is it fair to force people to play softcore? because it makes no sense to play hardcore if you really want the rewards.

And yes, hardcore is harder than softcore. You die once on hardcore. Not sure how people can say otherwise.

Right now softcore got a easier time getting the same rewards as a hardcore player. Thats not fair.

The "force people to play softcore" line doesn't seem to fit the situation. It's overly dramatic and just not true.

It's not possible to equalize across game modes, practically speaking, nor is it important.

Except in some academic "I-like-to-play-with-words" sense, unequal only means unfair if the stakes involved are significant. For example, discrimination based on group identification is unfair. Legacy preferences (children of alumni get favored access) to prestigious US schools like Harvard is unfair because it perpetuates racial disparities in access to an elite education and the associated opportunities. Slavery as an institution is inherently and obviously not fair. Children dying because they had the misfortune to be born in a war zone isn't fair.

Moving the odds on a MTX prize that you have little chance of winning anyways isn't significant enough as a factor in our lives to spend 0.00000000000000000001 seconds worrying about them.

The message from GGG is to pick the game mode you enjoy and then ... enjoy it. If you win a minor kind of lottery by receiving an MTX, then that's gravy. But, it's just that, gravy, on what is hopefully an enjoyable in-game experience.

That sounds like a good idea to me.

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

The "force people to play softcore" line doesn't seem to fit the situation. It's overly dramatic and just not true.

Riiight. But when we're talking about different/better prizes for HC players someone is always there to say that it would force people to play HC.

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Except in some academic "I-like-to-play-with-words" sense, unequal only means unfair if the stakes involved are significant.

Who told you that? "Unfair" is the opposite of "fair" and it has nothing to do with the stakes involved. Just because i'm not getting fired or imprisoned or whatever for not winning mtx doesn't mean the situation is fair. Can i live with that? Sure. Am i pissed of? Well i was a little pissed off when i died yesterday to several invasion bosses because i knew that my chances of getting to top 100 are probably screwed now and now i can only compete for mtx from the shared pool, and my chances here are much lower than if i were playing SC.

GGG can't make everyone in the world happy, can't stop racial/gender/whatever discrimination anywhere but in game chat, and even if i can't marry my gf and it worries me a 1000000 times more than winning some pixels in an ARPG doesn't mean i expect GGG to change that. And we're not talking about that.

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Moving the odds on a MTX prize that you have little chance of winning anyways isn't significant enough as a factor in our lives to spend 0.00000000000000000001 seconds worrying about them.

Well, anything about PoE is probably not worth worrying about, it's just a game after all. I really hate that kind of argumentation. You're trying to talk about some problems in the game and are told that those aren't real problem because it has nothing to do with children starving in Africa. This way you can easily make anything that is wrong in the world, no matter how big or small, a non-issue.

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Riiight. But when we're talking about different/better prizes for HC players someone is always there to say that it would force people to play HC.

Of course, because it is an additional rule. You can play HC in SC, you cannot play SC in HC. So forcing players to play SC makes hardly a difference, because HC is a rule you choose yourself and if you want to play HC you can do so in both leagues. Same goes for SSF, some people played it for years before it was an actual option.

Actually HC as well was played by players like that a long time before any game actually had HC as an option. Almost every player who played Pen & Paper RPGs played HC and games just copied that over.

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Well, anything about PoE is probably not worth worrying about, it's just a game after all. I really hate that kind of argumentation. You're trying to talk about some problems in the game and are told that those aren't real problem because it has nothing to do with children starving in Africa.

The issue here is that it makes those additional rewards basically free for good players and almost unoptainable for the average player. Because those players used to play HC and SC when we still had challanges forcing players to play both leagues.

Not to mention that for shorter leagues those rewards are already different, the rewards themself are the same, but the chances of aquiring them are wastely different due to the amount of people playing the league. Lets assume the 20 best of each ascendancy get a reward. It is not easier to get that reward in SC than it is to get that reward in HC, because everyone has the same upped challange. Another one would be everyone who defeats Shaper gets into a Pool of which 100 people are drawn, this pool is much bigger in SC than it is in HC.

The only thing that is really easier to get in SC are some of the challanges, not even all. Mostly the lvl90 one and the defeat a certain boss ones, although so many of those kills are bought anyway that it hardly matters.

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Emphasy wrote:

Of course, because it is an additional rule. You can play HC in SC, you cannot play SC in HC. So forcing players to play SC makes hardly a difference, because HC is a rule you choose yourself and if you want to play HC you can do so in both leagues. Same goes for SSF, some people played it for years before it was an actual option.

Show me one person playing "HC in SC" during the race event.

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The issue here is that it makes those additional rewards basically free for good players and almost unoptainable for the average player.

Y-yeah. What's so terribly wrong with that? I'd never win a unique demigod's even if i had all time in the world, but i'm ok with that. Someone else wins it because he's a better player, it's absolutely fair.

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Not to mention that for shorter leagues those rewards are already different, the rewards themself are the same, but the chances of aquiring them are wastely different due to the amount of people playing the league.

The situation is only better in HC for people with tons of free time. We're talking about 15000+ participants and only 100 people who will reach the required threshold. Your chances of reaching the top 100 are almost non-existent if you have a job, so you're aiming for level threshold rewards.

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Anubis2108 wrote:

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

Neah, until PoE doesn't get an offline mode, Hardcore needs to account for the "instant log out" as a "Holy Grail" of escaping certain "death is certain" situations.

The only people that do play Hardcore currently in PoE are those that "nerf" themselves via hard/soft caps on that, and/or for SSF too (I'm mainly talking about those that delete their characters on Softcore for any deaths not related to connection problems, and due to PoE "perfect" stability, all that want to not feel they lost progression independent of their skillplay should EVER play differently, and the same applies for SSF, where some players like our @TheAnuhart played that way for years before SSF become an actual league)...

So first, GGG needs to get Hardcore in PoE in the right way, and keep reducing the options regarding "chickening out" of tough to deals situations, if we're meant to talk about that - and no, having even "godlike" players use the "log out" option as a way to bypass "scary stuff" doesn't bring anything "Hardcore" to PoE...

Having a separate set of colours for the MTXs would be great, but as soon as they go that way, some will say that they should also adapt challenges accordingly, and at least for a part, they would be right...

PS: GGG needs to encourage taking more calculated risks when playing, no matter the Softcore/Hardcore debacle, as the current danger/reward ratios are so skewed that it's underwhelming to see the current state and not "sigh"...

Insta logouts and how much hardcore poe is has nothing to do with the fact that it is still easier to get the rewards on softcore. PLease stay on topic and if you want to discuss logouts and other things further make a new thread about it.

This thread is about prizes being the same on hardcore and softcore and it promotes softcore league rather than what i want and that is hardcore.

Cool story... /s

Let me make it a bit clearer why all my comment actually stayed ON TOPIC:

You can't start tossing around that "Hardcore is more difficult than Softcore" as long as it actually isn't. It just adds a sole limitation while reducing the margin of error. If you consider it enough, good for you. But that doesn't make it "hardcore".

Using the "Holy Grail" to escape does a severe disservice to the "Hardcore" semblance of experience that PoE should pose...

And I bolded my entire opinion regarding the difference of prize pools to make it easier to be seen...