Prizes should be different for hardcore and softcore, why would i play hardcore?

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I can't play softcore for any length of time without getting bored, so softcore vs hardcore isn't really a matter of choice for me.

Yeah that is basically it. If you play HC because of the rewards that is an issue. You should play it because you want to. Because it used to be different. HC had different league uniques than SC and challanges forced you to play in both leagues. Which meant players were forced to play a league they didn't enjoy for rewards.

Not to mention that the game is completly the same. HC is not harder than SC. People that are not dying in SC will also not die in HC. And there are likely a few people that actually play HC in SC (iE delete their character when he dies), but they don't want to be seperated from friends or the much bigger economy in SC (which usually makes it harder for better players and easier for worse ones).

Seperate rewards would also bring back the issue that the game is not necessarily made around hardcore, it is just an option you have, which can frustrate you because the game includes a bunch of situations that players are not necessarily meant to survive. In SC this hardly matters because even on high levels while a dead loses you a lot of XP its tolerable, in HC you are dead and you might not even be at fault (well technically you are at fault, because you didnt Alt+F4 quick enough).

And I can already see the complains when SC players are forced to play HC for those rewards.

And if you ever ask yourself why you should play HC... play SC, because this question alone basically disqualifies people from playing HC.

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Emphasy wrote:

Not to mention that the game is completly the same. HC is not harder than SC. People that are not dying in SC will also not die in HC.

Only if you use hacks that save your butt when you sneeze at a wrong time. And play boring no-risk builds in boring no-risk maps.

I don't play HC because I like SC better, just like somebody said. In SC I can do crazy stuff that most HC players can't even dream of doing. Killing a corrupted T16 boss with absolutely insane mods is an awesome feeling.

But this thread is not about that. It's about the races and prizes. And there is nothing wrong with awarding more prizes to the HC verison of the race. It is harder. Unless you cheat, but that's a different problem.

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Anubis2108 wrote:

Can we stay on topic please.

Yes, the chances of winning the rewards are very low, but that is not the point. The point is i might aswell play softcore because my chances are better there. Simply because i can steamroll everything and dont give 2 cents about my defences, and i do not thing that is fair or fun.

Well, having bad defenses mean you won't level up too well and will stay below 92 or 94 depending on how bad said defenses are and how you play lol.
There are fewer players in hardcore, no? I thought that would increase the chance of being one of the selected persons to get prizes....

Also, there is a reason why hardcore has the same LOOT/XP and other stuff, because it's whole point is the CHALLENGE, if you don't want the challenge, don't play HC.

It's just like Solo self found, no boost, just a self imposed challenge; both HC and SSF make the game a whole new experience, that's WHY.

With the ability for people to instantly log-off to escape any death, for the most competitive players, there is not really any difference between SC and HC.

One could argue that the game is easier for HC players that have and use said technique then for SC players that do not. At the very least there is solid ground for those two situations to be comparably difficult. Because there is not much difference between SC Zerg battling and HC instant log-off battling, except that SC receives a death penalty.

Unless GGG creates a policy like the following:
If you die or log-off you cannot reenter any instances. (Excluding towns and hideouts of course).

Then instant log-off would cease to be a combat technique. Then performing battles without dying would have meaning again.

Instant log-off would still be used to save a characters from things like lag. That is why it is allowed after all. There would just be a cost associated with using it.

I don't even know why there is so much debate in this thread. It is full of the most ridiculous and irrelevant things I have ever heard, and the typical idiot minded stuff like "log-out is cheating" or "softcore is scrub". It has nothing to do with your preferences, why you play one league or another. Hardcore and by extension HCSSF is objectively disadvantaged in obtaining prizes.

Hardcore and softcore are the same game, but with 1 additional rule and the 1 additional rule makes it harder to progress, as in harder to level up. And the "prize pools" of race is based solely on your level and progress, compared with the progress with other players. there is no debate or question here. If one player dies and loses 30 minutes of progress, vs a player who dies and loses 20 hours, of course it is harder for players who lose 20.

Just take a look at any hardcore ladder, and look how many % (Dead) there are.
If they died at lvl 89, they are not lvl 90, very simple, while the same player in softcore is lvl 90 after another few hours despite dying. If they had to grind an extra 1 hours to to lower their chances of dying to 1 mistake on kitava, they are behind on maps compared to a player in softcore.

You could play the exact same character on softcore on hardcore provided you never died, and vice versa, except you can die and only lost like 0.5-3 hours of gameplay (provided we are talking about prize pools. For demi's it is not relevant because demis are matched between your league if i have read the race rules properly).

Now a real problem with differentiating prizes for each league is that in order to set a prize pool, they have to know ahead of time how many players are participating in each league.

For example If the prize pool is then split into 100 mtxs in softcore, and 100 mtx in hardcore, well we know that typically 60-80% of players are playing softcore (sorry if my stats are wrong I don't remember it very well, I just recall that the softcore/hardcore participation ratio is definitely very uneven), thus now obtaining mtx is possibly even easier in hardcore, as the numbers of tickets for the prize pool draw is not the same ratio.

I think historically the participation for hardcore was not as low as it is now, and the fact that it is changing may make it hard for GGG to predict these numbers, especially for leagues such as these, some may feel like playing only softcore because of how crazy the mods are and they just want to have fun without losing significant progress, or they may play hardcore since its voided anyways, or vice versa.... there are a lot of factors that can make it hard to accurately give out fair prizing in separate leagues.

They should be the same. Play the version you find fun, and quit acting like you deserve shit just for playing HC over SC.

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CidAvadose wrote:

With the ability for people to instantly log-off to escape any death, for the most competitive players, there is not really any difference between SC and HC.

That's BS and you'd knew it if you actually played HC.

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Telzen wrote:

They should be the same. Play the version you find fun, and quit acting like you deserve shit just for playing HC over SC.

HC and especially HCSSF racers are at a huge disadvantage, you can't argue with that.

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LaiTash wrote:

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CidAvadose wrote:

With the ability for people to instantly log-off to escape any death, for the most competitive players, there is not really any difference between SC and HC.

That's BS and you'd knew it if you actually played HC.

There is a reason I said for the most competitive players. This is clearly not everyone. This is clearly not 50%. This is the top 10% if that. I know that most who play HC would never use such tactics. I used to play HC exclusively until my current character and I never did. The idea felt wrong as I assume it does to most HC players. (I currently play SSF for my challenge instead.)

There are certainly those in that top group that don't use instant-logoff as well. I am just saying that it is a well known fact that to be competitive in HC that is one of the best tactics.

The top rewards, which was the purpose of the thread, are for the top players. The argument was why there should not be a difference in rewards between HC and SC because of the existence of instant-logoff.

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CidAvadose wrote:

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LaiTash wrote:

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CidAvadose wrote:

With the ability for people to instantly log-off to escape any death, for the most competitive players, there is not really any difference between SC and HC.

That's BS and you'd knew it if you actually played HC.

There is a reason I said for the most competitive players.

Even then it's easier to play SC. Maybe you never die (however i doubt it's a thing - even the top 10% sometimes loose they characters before lvl 90, and sometimes even before they reach maps), but you can also be more ruthless and design your build in a way you would never try in HC. And instant logoff only saves you from a limited set of situations.

Hell, i've seen a man who's currently somwhere around top 30 in HCSSF died to corrupting blood, his life was draining for like a second and he didn't see that. S**t happens, but not in SC.

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The top rewards, which was the purpose of the thread, are for the top players.

I'm not the "top" player, but i've leveled two characters in HCSSF Turmoil - one of them died at level 86, one reached 90. If i were playing SC, both would reach 90. Now, i had a bad luck with map drops which happens to everyone and couldn't buy my way to T15, had to craft my own gear while being constantly low on currency (and had to pick up every single piece of crap to refill my currency stash tab), had to play a relatively "safe" build and take some nodes to compensate for lack of resists on gear (my amulet had no resists and only 35 life on it, the only reason i was wearing it was +attributes). So all things considered i could easily level 3-4 characters in SC.

And think about how easier it is to die in Mayhem. Even instant logoff won't save you from an invasion boss with a few spirits in it or vaal detonate dead explosions.

Now, i don't care too much about mtx prizes but still knowing that i'd have a much better chances of winning anything except fireflies how my HO if i played SC is somewhat disappointing. I know GGG doesn't want to make people feel forced to play HC/SSF, but this way people may feel forced to play SC and it's wrong as well.

The whole point of having hardcore is to provide a higher level of challenge and risk for players. That's why it exists. It's not a way to do an end run around the in-game benefits associated with playing softcore.

Trying to even out the risk / return profile of softcore and hardcore could easily consume a lot of resources and end up failing anyways because of the difficulty of the endeavor.

It's far simpler to convey, as GGG has, that SSF / trade and softcore / hardcore are different game modes which offer different risk / return profiles and you pick the one(s) you like.