Statistical customisation invites tinkering, and the passive tree does not allow it

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Kabraxis wrote:

WITH respec i at least can try some other OP build without investment of my whole free time.

The part I've underlined is one of the most important opinions GGG should look at, cause its exactly what they want you to do, what they need to force players to have success: to spent as much as possible time. Thats what gaming is all about, in real.

And, like the others said, there must be a voice to stat that there are players which going along GGG's way - not only people with expections from other games with different backgrounds and mechanics, expections that may be wrong (in the context off POE) and so never be fulfiled there.

Beside this, "we" try to show and share our opinions among other interested readers, and also try to convince other by our arguments.

Have you ever considered, that some of the people that shares our opinion, are too tired to post in such threads "against" somewhat fanatic sounding demadings tio change the game into something different? Or that some people simly dont have the ability to express their thoughts (in a perhaps foreign laguage: english) good enough to post it?
But if there are complainers, there must be an opposite voice too, to prevent GGG (and other readers, players) from the impression, all people would think like this.
Thats one reason why I still post such things, cause I'm starting to become tired of it, too.

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Stormripper wrote:

i just dont get some ppl...One of the charms of an arpg is to reroll several characters, experiment with builds and overall see what the game has to offer.

Thats simply just people, which dont see it as as aprg, dont want to play it this way, dont want to waste their time... :-D

"

Mr_Cee wrote:

"

Stormripper wrote:

i just dont get some ppl...One of the charms of an arpg is to reroll several characters, experiment with builds and overall see what the game has to offer.

Thats simply just people, which dont see it as as aprg, dont want to play it this way, dont want to waste their time... :-D

One of the charms you say is reroll? So tell me titles of games with this charm that dont have respec and are aRPG's (HnS) and that are on market atm and are considered "good". Im waiting.
Diablo2? - Free respec 3x char.
Titan Quest - Endless Paid Easy respec
Torchlight? - endless respec potions

Sry but your argument is invalid. I can "experiment with builds and overall see what the game has to offer" easier, faster and in more ways WITH respec. And it not takes "ARPG charm" away. It only make whole process more available to statistical (casual if u want call him that) player, and less painfull and grindy.

PoE also has payed re-spec, it scale linearly with your level, adaptive to how much you've fucked up your character, and to top it all of it interacts with the player economy!

I have 10 regret, bought 0 of em, with the 8(?) quest ones I can more than 25% of all the points I've placed so far. I recon it would take about 15 more to pretty much undo my bowlar into a melee 2H cleave templar. 15 regrets in current market economy is cheap. Or pay a few orbs to the people who've started dragging people through all the difficulties up to completing merciless and chaos leech for a play session to level 60.

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Kabraxis wrote:

One of the charms you say is reroll? So tell me titles of games with this charm that dont have respec and are aRPG's (HnS) and that are on market atm and are considered "good". Im waiting.
Diablo2? - Free respec 3x char.
Titan Quest - Endless Paid Easy respec
Torchlight? - endless respec potions

WWWWoooooooowwwwww ... wait a minute!
D2 had no respecs AT ALL for like forever ... (dunno how many years people re-rolled chars because of just ONE missclick)
Titan Quest is kinda "softcore" anyways ... but it gets kinda expensive to reroll a complete char.

I like it the way it is in PoE. I spend some time at the skilltree before i start a new char. Then i play and if i made a mistake in skilling i got some points and regrets so undo. I never had a prob with that. That's just the way it is. My first char sucks ass after the first playthrough? Well i'll make a new one, because i dont really care if i play cruel with my first char or normal with a new one ... ?

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Kabraxis wrote:

"

Mr_Cee wrote:

Thats simply just people, which dont see it as as aprg, dont want to play it this way, dont want to waste their time... :-D

One of the charms you say is reroll?

It wasnt me who said this.

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Kabraxis wrote:

Sry but your argument is invalid. I can "experiment with builds and overall see what the game has to offer" easier, faster and in more ways WITH respec.

But this proves my statements: you're about doing "faster, easier" - with less demand on thinking about (and before) your decisions, and less time to "waste". Welcome, mindless world...

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k0pf wrote:

WWWWoooooooowwwwww ... wait a minute!
D2 had no respecs AT ALL for like forever ... (dunno how many years people re-rolled chars because of just ONE missclick)

And duuno how long the players BEGS Blizzard to introduce ability to respec char because they DONT WANT to reroll but they ARE FORCED too because ther isnt a respec mechanic ingame. Abolity to respec was one of the most anticipated by platerbase features that Blizzard introduca after years of begging and crying.

Yes - D2 players do not reroll because they love going agaim 54 times through very boring (for hardcore player or player that know the game already) normal and nightmare to get to the "fun stuff". They reroll only because they dont have another option (besides BUYING A READY HIGH LVL CHAR).
If you claim otherwise i think we played not the same game.

Other thing that honesly dont cross my mind before is that (like i mention above) if game has not easy respec it encourages illegal character buying/selling.
In my country we have whole companies that sells leveling services or "ready" chars to Diablo 2.
Why? Because they have demand. Because that playerbase that thinks the rerolling is "part of HnS charm" really dont want to reroll and rather they go to shady website and will buy "ready" char. And dont tell that this is/was not happening (not anymore tbh because we have easy respecs in D2 already), its a fact.
So... with too harsh respec system the only comapny that will profit is (sadly) D2jsp.


"But this proves my statements: you're about doing "faster, easier" - with less demand on thinking about (and before) your decisions, and less time to "waste". Welcome, mindless world..."

Ohhh... welcome "mindless" world where i can enjoy VIDEO GAME THAT IS MADE TO PROVIDE FUN AND ENTERTAIMENT in the way that i want, without investing before 30h in activities that dont make me happy at all (for example grinding orbs of regret and gathering respec points from quests with my only highlvl char that does not make me happy because its broken or i dont like this playstyle anymore - this is respec system in PoE, REALLY PLAYER FRIENDLY.) :)
It has nothing to do with "thinking". "thinking" is the same in games with and in games without respec - only differrence is size of punishment that will come if you make bad decisions (in Poe this is rather big, too big imho).

Likei stated in other "respec topic" im not definitely fan of VERY EASY respec.
But the respec system ingame should not be punishing, should not force player do activities that he dont like (any system ingame should not, not only respec) and sadly in PoE respec system is bad.
And the devs acknowledged this btw - and changes to the system incoming. Im eager to see what changes.

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Mr_Cee wrote:

But this proves my statements: you're about doing "faster, easier" - with less demand on thinking about (and before) your decisions, and less time to "waste". Welcome, mindless world...

It't not about thinking or decisions ..it's about god damn time.

Thinking about trying different build and actually play the ARPG is as much softcore as drinking a coffee. Except drinking a coffee will take few minutes ..while playing the game to actually get to the point what you will enjoy can take days if not weeks.

Many players don't think playing low level content is fun no matter how you look at it...no matter how you twist what ARPG should be..etc.. .PoE is first and foremost game..played for fun.. you just can't corner players into situation what they don't enjoy and expect that they will continue playing.

It's even more sad that this whole situation is because of E-peen.. Pointless ladder system is giving these anti respec voices argument why to not allow respec.. but at a same time..pro - respec people don't care about ladder and competitive part of the game..and they have no problem if they will be excluded from ladder system or will have their own "softcore" ladder.. they just want have fun.

It's stupid circle. Elitists are causing leaving guilds or even games..and catering to elitists to the point that many people just can't have fun because of things they don't care at all will cause that PoE will be just niche game..

And anyone who will say "go play other game if you don't like it" should just shut up and never come back to forum again. We all are here to providing feedback.. and many people while loving PoE don't like current respec system (it's really stupid IMO)..there is still chance that game will be changed .. so as long is this possible, we will voice are opinion.

I would love to play PoE...I would love to play PoE with my friends. Sadly..All but me just stopped trying PoE because of anti-respec standpoint from the developers. And while I am not utilizing respec systems in the game.. I wont play this game at release(if proper respec wont be in the game) because..these games are meant to be played with friends. or at least for me... and I wont get them back with current system.

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ManiaCCC wrote:

I would love to play PoE...I would love to play PoE with my friends. Sadly..All but me just stopped trying PoE because of anti-respec standpoint from the developers. And while I am not utilizing respec systems in the game.. I wont play this game at release(if proper respec wont be in the game) because..these games are meant to be played with friends. or at least for me... and I wont get them back with current system.

Thats just pathetic, sorry but it is. You wont play a game you like cause despite being able to easily come by enough respec points to rebuild you whole character you are prevented from doing it whenever you want. You even said yourself you haven't utilised the system in place, why not? If you want to its easy to get around 30 or 40 respec points no hassle at all, even easier come release when a proper trade economy starts up.

Hide behind other reasons all you want, fact is you want full easy respecs to basically tweak and overpower your build based on circumstance, so if you want to PVP you will min/max a pvp build, then switch back to a PVE build. Sorry but many of us (and the developers) would prefer a system that asks you to choose and weigh up pros and cons rather than letting everyone do what they want without consequence.

And as someone who played D2 from release for many years, it wasnt until the WOW crowd migrated in years later that respecs where even mentioned. The very concept of respecs was not even popular until games like WOW.

So yeah D2 was popular for a long time before respecs where even mentioned by the wider player base.

You CANNOT compare this game with D2 when you talk about respecs. D2's skill tree was at least two orders of magnitude simpler than PoEs. Talking about whether D2 did or did not allow respecs is utterly pointless.