Statistical customisation invites tinkering, and the passive tree does not allow it

Oh, don't feed the troll.

This post is just a wall of empty whine.

You can't mess up your character so much that you cannot complete the current content. (even though it's possible to combine certain keystones, which some might claim would do this, it's undoable with a single orb. Or you can do that mistake eight times in a row for free).

I'm pretty sure you can screw you character with Blood Magic if you don't plan ahead :)

You know you've already lost when the best you can bring to the table is "you're playing wrong".

Cover your ears and scream "Games have not progressed since 1998!" lol.

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Fwib wrote:

Did the league of legends comparisons really justify yet another "we want free respecs" thread (while GGG have clearly stated they want people to reroll for major build changes and it's not gonna change)?

You're not actually adding anything to the argument that hasn't been said before by saying things like "statistical customisation".

Maybe that's true, maybe it's not - but if it is true, then it's just as true about you and all the rest of the people in this thread who say the same exact things every single time someone raises an issue which can be considered to be even CLOSE to "ease up on respecs."

If the OP isn't adding anything to the conversation, then someone RESPONDING to him is adding... a negative amount?

And to be honest, when NEW people keep making threads about the issue, and the same small number of people respond with the same small number of arguments EVERY SINGLE TIME, I DO feel like you're subtracting from your own case.

If GGG's not going to do it, then you have nothing to argue about. And if they're considering it, repeating the same things over and over again hurts your side of the argument.

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simnel wrote:

Maybe that's true, maybe it's not - but if it is true, then it's just as true about you and all the rest of the people in this thread who say the same exact things every single time someone raises an issue which can be considered to be even CLOSE to "ease up on respecs."

If the OP isn't adding anything to the conversation, then someone RESPONDING to him is adding... a negative amount?

And to be honest, when NEW people keep making threads about the issue, and the same small number of people respond with the same small number of arguments EVERY SINGLE TIME, I DO feel like you're subtracting from your own case.

If GGG's not going to do it, then you have nothing to argue about. And if they're considering it, repeating the same things over and over again hurts your side of the argument.

Thats really disingenuous to suggest just a small vocal minority are against respecs. Its quite the opposite, its a vocal minority who want full respecs and they are often new players who are expecting a more MMORPG like experience. That last bit is debateable obviously (but something I believe is hampering the forums somewhat and causing most arguments)

But honestly most people are fine with the current, more than generous, respec options. Ive not even tried and my level 60 ranger could easily respec around 15 points atm and thats having used/wasted the earlier free respecs testing out weird abilities and learning my build. Had I saved them up till lvl 60 I could more or less rebuild my whole character.

I honestly dont know what game people expect. You are supposed to enjoy the game enough to want to create new characters, its not like a mmorpg where you are expected to basically have one or two lifetime characters you play forever. Its also different in so much that having an 'optimal build' is neither easy to achieved or required. Thats not a criticism of either system just an observation. If you dont enjoy the gameplay enough to want to create alts and do new builds then maybe this game just isn't right for you and posting threads asking for it to be changed is akin to me going to the wow forums (which doesnt appeal to me) and asking them to remove respecs or some other core game concept.

Finally people respond cause they want to present GGG with a balanced view, if we just kept our mouths shut GGG might get the impression everyone thought like that. Although they have said its never going to happen (full respecs) so the whole thread is rather pointless, yes including my post.

If that kind of thread keeps on popping, I don't think the "no-respec" crowd is the majority.

But no way to tell, the ones who post on the forum and continue playing the game are the fans (or at least some guys who enjoy the game right now).

We just think the game could be better with an improved system.

I don't really care how it will end, that's why it's fine if my voice doesn't reach them (but I think it did).

I just gave my feedback because I think it was important, like the "neutral good" guy I am :)

I'm not sure where you're getting your data from, Rod. Have you done some kind of survey? I'd be really interested in the results.

My statement was based on exactly what I said - there are constant forum threads about respecs. These threads are rarely if ever by forum regulars, and the people in support are also rarely forum regulars. IE, the people who support easier respecs tend to be - in my anecdotal experience - different people much of the time.

On the other hand, if you look through these same threads, you will see the same names almost every time advocating against easier respecs. Very few "new" voices pop up to advocate against respecs (although it certainly does happen.)

As for a "balanced view" - I'm pretty sure that, even without those same people making the same arguments in every thread, GGG knows that at least some people STRONGLY want respecs to stay the way they are. Not sure how they could have missed that :-)

I really, really wish that the people like Fwib, Mr_Cee, and the others - who clearly care a lot about this game - would accept the idea that not everyone wants to play the way they do, and that the skill tree is EXTREMELY complicated. You guys need to take the effort you put in to trying to shout the other side down, and put it into trying to find a fix that would help the people who think things are too punishing - but still respect your OWN playstyle, and make sure what you think is good about this game remains intact.

It seems, from what Chris is saying, that they are going to make SOME kind of change to the system. If you sit there and say "No change is acceptable", you're much less likely to end up with a system you like than if you made suggestions that you could live with.

Making statements that "most ppls like system AAA and are perfectly fine with it" or "this system (currency without unified one for example) will work because most ppl like it atm".... when we have 200 players online IS LAUGHABLE.

Everything will change when game enters Open beta and it will see soem real playerbase - not bunch of zealous fanboys that can't stans any critic and that enjoys grinding ladder to lvl 80 on lvl 60 mobs.


There are noumerous threads on forums about some most flawed things in PoE and they are bouncing back since 0.9.1. Most of ppl that provide this feedback dont play beta anymore - guess why. And its only beta.

Other side you will see (mostly) exacly the same names over and over that works as "GGG and PoE advocates" and are simply addicted to this game.

Catering to them and not making changes now when we are on the tweaking and polishing part of the beta because bunch of hardcores says "everything is in order" will result in this game fail.

And this is happening in very important topic on these forums - ppl making valid gameplay complaints and discuss solutions and then fanboys going through thread with "game is perfect", "its no game for you - go away you casual piece of shit", "0,001% chance to roll cool item is perfectly fine", and "game must be challenging" etc...

yada, yada, yada.... this is your challenging game: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/19975/highlight/

This is even happening in threads about monsters AI and skills regardless that mobs in PoE can only go to you and wait for be killed lol because they have neither AI or challenging skills/bahavior. Honestly its LAUGHABLE.

So i have bad news for you guys - YOU ARE AND YOU WILL BE VOCAL MINORITY IN THIS GAME. It is already hapenning.
And there is nothing hardcoe and challenging in PoE right now - without for example Respec system the game is nothing more that mountain of boredom atm.
WITH respec i at least can try some other OP build without investment of my whole free time.

Reading this forums is sad nowadays.

Arguing that someone is the majority or minority without access to any statistical data is not a good idea.

Neither is claiming that someone is right by default because he is in the majority.

How about we just say why do we think a system should be in place, or not in place, try to counter the arguments of others if we really have the counterarguments to do so and move on?

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Kabraxis wrote:

Most of ppl that provide this feedback dont play beta anymore - guess why. And its only beta.

I'd much rather know then guess. Do you know why?

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Kabraxis wrote:

Making statements that "most ppls like system AAA and are perfectly fine with it" or "this system (currency without unified one for example) will work because most ppl like it atm".... when we have 200 players online IS LAUGHABLE.

So is the assumption that when the "masses" come, the opposite will be proven right somehow.

I can guess why they would stop playing.
- they screwed their passive tree and didn't want to reroll a character.
- the passive tree is the less sexy thing you can level up in that kind of game.
- weapon bound skills. not much replay value with this amount of skills or when you understand that every class can use these skills.
- lack of AI. There's 2 types of attack, ranged and melee. No particular tactic coming for the enemy to kill you. It's only fun when you meet a rare or a boss, because they use some skills (sometimes) or have an aura.