Is Vaal Pact a cheese mechanic?

I don't think it's cheese, it just needs a limit applied to it. Every other recovery mechanism requires investment which is limited. Regen has a few nodes and a few items, it is limited by scarcity. Normal leech has a shit ton of sources but is limited by max leech rate which is once again scarce. VP takes 1 passive point and then had no limit.
If max leech rate still played a roll, maybe it became max leech per hit or something like that, people wouldn't hate it so much.

Look at it this way, if you took a regen build and removed 1 regen node it would still function just fine because that build had to invest into regen. Take a leech build that doesn't use VP and remove 1 leech node and it still works fine because they are invested in leech. Finally take a VP build (well a good VP build) and remove VP, it probably won't work very well because it didn't have to invest much into leech cause it's damage carried it. suddenly it doesn't work because it's only recovery investment was 1 point in VP.

Am I crazy? If I have 100 hp and get hit by 10,000 damage it doesn't matter if I have 10,001 life instantly returned from Vaal pact, I am dead, right? That damage is calculated before leech is factored, regardless if it is over time or instantaneous? That I still need defense to prevent one-shots?

That the whole point of the ES nerf was that you could stack MORE than every one-shot and then instantly leech to full after every hit and therefore be immortal?

If all that is true, then Vaal Pact is certainly cheesy-ish but you can't just pick the node and go: "Okay, I am done, I am A GOD!."

It basically makes your character in one of two states, "fine" or "dead" and so it's not cheesy necessarily, but it's certainly powerful, since more eHP is all you need to make it better, then again that's how all of the useful recovery mechanics scale anyway. VP is just the best recovery mechanic.

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Slaanesh69 wrote:

Am I crazy? If I have 100 hp and get hit by 10,000 damage it doesn't matter if I have 10,001 life instantly returned from Vaal pact, I am dead, right? That damage is calculated before leech is factored, regardless if it is over time or instantaneous? That I still need defense to prevent one-shots?

That the whole point of the ES nerf was that you could stack MORE than every one-shot and then instantly leech to full after every hit and therefore be immortal?

If all that is true, then Vaal Pact is certainly cheesy-ish but you can't just pick the node and go: "Okay, I am done, I am A GOD!."

instant leech makes you able to ignore any other defense or mechanics asides from your hit point pool and damage. those things are already that people love to stack.

basically, you're double dipping into damage with instant leech and contributing even more to power creep; while simulatenously ignoring a large part of game that is interaction with monsters and choosing and investing in defense

to have one of the best and variant defensive systems in arpgs (and coming from me its a big compliment) and completely circumvent it in order to get more damage is just sad (especially since theres tons of overkill damage and not enough mob health).

poe started out as a defense-oriented game. one of the most memorable videos from kripp is 'how you will never be complacent in poe' or some shit like that, and the main reason was leech cap.

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grepman wrote:

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Slaanesh69 wrote:

Am I crazy? If I have 100 hp and get hit by 10,000 damage it doesn't matter if I have 10,001 life instantly returned from Vaal pact, I am dead, right? That damage is calculated before leech is factored, regardless if it is over time or instantaneous? That I still need defense to prevent one-shots?

That the whole point of the ES nerf was that you could stack MORE than every one-shot and then instantly leech to full after every hit and therefore be immortal?

If all that is true, then Vaal Pact is certainly cheesy-ish but you can't just pick the node and go: "Okay, I am done, I am A GOD!."

instant leech makes you able to ignore any other defense or mechanics asides from your hit point pool and damage. those things are already that people love to stack.

basically, you're double dipping into damage with instant leech and contributing even more to power creep; while simulatenously ignoring a large part of game that is interaction with monsters and choosing and investing in defense

to have one of the best and variant defensive systems in arpgs (and coming from me its a big compliment) and completely circumvent it in order to get more damage is just sad (especially since theres tons of overkill damage and not enough mob health).

poe started out as a defense-oriented game. one of the most memorable videos from kripp is 'how you will never be complacent in poe' or some shit like that, and the main reason was leech cap.

Check this out. Then tell me about VP.
https://youtu.be/hCefX0caR9M?t=53s

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Kastmar wrote:

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grepman wrote:

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Slaanesh69 wrote:

Am I crazy? If I have 100 hp and get hit by 10,000 damage it doesn't matter if I have 10,001 life instantly returned from Vaal pact, I am dead, right? That damage is calculated before leech is factored, regardless if it is over time or instantaneous? That I still need defense to prevent one-shots?

That the whole point of the ES nerf was that you could stack MORE than every one-shot and then instantly leech to full after every hit and therefore be immortal?

If all that is true, then Vaal Pact is certainly cheesy-ish but you can't just pick the node and go: "Okay, I am done, I am A GOD!."

instant leech makes you able to ignore any other defense or mechanics asides from your hit point pool and damage. those things are already that people love to stack.

basically, you're double dipping into damage with instant leech and contributing even more to power creep; while simulatenously ignoring a large part of game that is interaction with monsters and choosing and investing in defense

to have one of the best and variant defensive systems in arpgs (and coming from me its a big compliment) and completely circumvent it in order to get more damage is just sad (especially since theres tons of overkill damage and not enough mob health).

poe started out as a defense-oriented game. one of the most memorable videos from kripp is 'how you will never be complacent in poe' or some shit like that, and the main reason was leech cap.

Check this out. Then tell me about VP.
https://youtu.be/hCefX0caR9M?t=53s

what does this video have to do with VP exactly ?
if the downside to VP was doing 2013 damage numbers (10k dps was pretty decent dps) instead of current damage numbers, it would be more acceptable

the video is using legacy flasks as well as legacy coil, good luck doing that in temp leagues. oh and pre-nerf blade vortex with old poison.

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adghar wrote:

He is probably referencing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAcDdlje-S8

At about 1:17 mark

so a build that can get oneshot in white maps, but can facetank one ability which doesnt do high spike damage but continous strong damage makes it broken?