When are we getting better trading tools?

Wow... it's amazing the lengths that players will go to to find ways to justify a bad game mechanic that GGG has with trader chat. I guess the thought that people don't want to admit when they are wrong is true and those that are still posting saying trade chat is good and "seller is AFK" is ok to make buying as frustrating as possible since that fits into their warped interpretation of "we don't want trading to be easy". Hard to use (as in trade mechanics and dependence on 3rd party tools that are not publicized by GGG) should never be viewed as hardcore as in "PoE is a hardcore arpg". And "old school arpg" style of arpg should never be a justification for bad game design and trading in PoE has always been and is today is very bad and the % of "and we like it that way" players are a minority and GGG needs to make trading an in-game function and stop relying on 3rd party tools that fragment trading and make it very undesirable to engage in.

Look if GGG wants us to trade then that's all fine and well by me (keep the drops as they are). But give me a working trade function so I don't have to put up with "seller is AFK" bullshit anymore. But then players can't complain (but I know some will always complain) that then PoE is all about trading and less on playing and finding or crafting the gear to make the next great build. I don't see that we can have it both ways. I'm only a "filthy casual" player and don't want to spend much of time that I allocate to play PoE scanning poe.trade looking for an item that has an on-line seller that is available to trade with. It's just way too time consuming right now so I'm playing SSF challenge leagues to show GGG (statistic numbers wise) that trading sucks and needs a major overhaul. I sure hope the December patch will give us the trade overhaul that we desperately need.

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Arrowneous wrote:

I'm only a "filthy casual" player and don't want to spend much of time that I allocate to play PoE scanning poe.trade looking for an item that has an on-line seller that is available to trade with.

And that's sort of the narrow mindset I dislike in this debate. "I want to". "I need to". "I should be able to". "I demand". "This should be".

I NEED TO be able to do some things myself. I like farming for my own stuff, but still be able to go shopping when I really need to. (I hope you get the irony here). And if I want an item that I do not have the time/skill/effort to farm/craft myself, I don't see why I should be able to get this item without a minimum effort. Spending a few minutes whispering AFK people? Absolutely not ideal, but hey, at least you have to do SOMETHING.

And before you go all haywire on me: No, I'm not defending the current system. No I'm not defending trade chat. I'm just trying to preserve the droprates and the ingame progression we have today. While you don't seem to give a shit, because it's OK for you to buy EVERYTHING, there are people out there wanting to experience the game, the drops and the progression without having to trade every other act/map tier. And do you honestly believe - that if we get an AH with instant buyout/selling - the droprates will stay the same? I do not believe that, which forces us into a slippery slope where trade > everything else.

YOU may think/feel that we're already there, but we're far from there. But we will be...

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Phrazz wrote:

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Arrowneous wrote:

I'm only a "filthy casual" player and don't want to spend much of time that I allocate to play PoE scanning poe.trade looking for an item that has an on-line seller that is available to trade with.

And that's sort of the narrow mindset I dislike in this debate. "I want to". "I need to". "I should be able to". "I demand". "This should be".

I NEED TO be able to do some things myself. I like farming for my own stuff, but still be able to go shopping when I really need to. (I hope you get the irony here). And if I want an item that I do not have the time/skill/effort to farm/craft myself, I don't see why I should be able to get this item without a minimum effort. Spending a few minutes whispering AFK people? Absolutely not ideal, but hey, at least you have to do SOMETHING.

And before you go all haywire on me: No, I'm not defending the current system. No I'm not defending trade chat. I'm just trying to preserve the droprates and the ingame progression we have today. While you don't seem to give a shit, because it's OK for you to buy EVERYTHING, there are people out there wanting to experience the game, the drops and the progression without having to trade every other act/map tier. And do you honestly believe - that if we get an AH with instant buyout/selling - the droprates will stay the same? I do not believe that, which forces us into a slippery slope where trade > everything else.

YOU may think/feel that we're already there, but we're far from there. But we will be...

The effort you put into farming the items and currency to buy/trade for such item is all the effort you should HAVE to put in, that is if you enjoy PLAYING the game..

Personally i am at a point i really do not even want to play anymore, as trade is so horrid dealing with price fixing scammers and afks, or people having buying scripts to buy items before they even post on poetrade. Trade is NOT fun, in any way shape or form, which really pushes me away as i love trading in games.

I give up. At this point GGG releasing any trading improvements is the same story than a possible Half life 3 release, and even if they were doing anything, the community is so split and angry when it come to this subject that it would probably end in the same shitstorm.
Somebody was right, it's just too late.
The design around trading was a fail from the begin but the intention was great i recognize that.
Sadly reading all those threads all years, watching the annual GGG's post about possible improvements i now understrand that there are no solutions at all.

Guess it's time to throw dedication, and stick to casual play. I reached that point yeah .. never tought it could really happen. Today i woke up, worked, went online for 10 mins - Received one offer and just decided to disconnect without even answering buyer. I'm talking about reaching that point where trading is ruining the 99% of good feelings you have with the game.

Stay safe, Cya around.

Ya know GGG could give an 2-3 week experimental server for us to tryout various trade methods. That is if GGG has the funds and resources to make such an event.

This topic is always so cluttered with aids.

This game needs an auction house. There are only 3 kinds of people when it comes to this topic.

1) The consumer. They want an auction house. You don't need the seller to be at their computer, or even outside a map/lab/etc. That being said, some sellers want an AH as well.

2) The price gouger. They do NOT want an auction house. It makes their greedy lives more difficult to "control the market" and get rich by having trade bots, etc.

3) The idiot. They are against auction houses in all games because they heard one time somewhere in some game that an auction house became pay-to-win.

The Type 2 & 3 people clutter this discussion so painfully much that it skews the charts. It makes it look like half the people don't want an auction house, when in reality, those are the half that literally don't matter as human beings. Why would GGG make decisions that cater to market schemers instead of catering to people who just want to play the game?

Honestly, outside of that, poe.trade feels like it covers everything else. The literal only problem with poe.trade (outside of market schemers) is all the afk's and non-responders. If you don't wanna sell items for 1-2 Chaos, or you don't wanna switch your Leagues to make a sale, then put your fucking shit off the market, you obnoxious pile of cancer.

Poe.trade lets us search for items with such precise accuracy. And yet, EVERY HUMAN ALIVE absolutely despises trading in PoE. Those two sentences should never coexist... But it does, solely because of the cancer babies.

An auction house with the same search criteria as poe.trade would solve all of these problems. Without it, it might be a matter of time before poe.trade does a "d2jsp" trade moderator mechanic out of pure necessity. Or, what I hope for, starts banning abusers of afk'ing/ignoring.

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ShadyC wrote:

3) The idiot. They are against auction houses in all games because they heard one time somewhere in some game that an auction house became pay-to-win.

The ignorance is strong in this one. Please, enlighten us, name some successful ARPG's where they implemented an AH with success? I wonder who's the idiot, when the only means to an end in a debate is to call someone idiots, followed by a sentence made up from your imagination? Please, point me to a post where SOMEONE says that they are against AH in all games? I guess GGG falls into category 3 too, as they clearly do not want an AH.

Yes, a in-sourced PoE.trade could work, if they stay away from instant buyouts. I would love some limitation in addition to that, though, maybe on the amount of things you can put up for sale, or the amount of transactions you can do each day. Because if we get free flow of everything, without limitations, with instant buyouts that ALL players easily can access and search for, the game, the in-game progression and the drop rates HAVE to be altered due to the IMMENSE increase in gear accessibility.

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X1Z1 wrote:

When are we getting better trading tools?

Right after they finished female marauders. ;o)

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Yes, a in-sourced PoE.trade could work, if they stay away from instant buyouts. I would love some limitation in addition to that, though, maybe on the amount of things you can put up for sale, or the amount of transactions you can do each day.

B U L L S H I T.

Imagine you had a limit on daily trades via poe.trade. Be it 5 times a day. You can only check traders' names 5 times, because all the rest are hidden. Silly, isn't it?

I love this one:

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Because if we get free flow of everything, without limitations, with instant buyouts that ALL players easily can access and search for, the game, the in-game progression and the drop rates HAVE to be altered due to the IMMENSE increase in gear accessibility.

And AH will inevitably cause all that "mayhem". Look, poe.trade is inhabited by many price-fixers. But apart from them, there are people who will eventually sell their stuff (afkers as well, sooner or later, once they get their asses back). The problem is that you claim for some reason that everything will be cheap as hell and easily obtainable, because all of a sudden the whole community will flood the AH with their Headhunters, Skyforths, etc. People won't go apeshit and start selling all the top tier items in the game if GGG implement AH; The number of these items WILL BE THE SAME as it is now. Those who want to sell their stuff, WILL SELL THEIR STUFF. But sooner. Not later, because you had to go for an hour and missed a trade. Why do you want to make it so hard? why there has to be effort put in the simple act of buying or selling? For lower tier items that are usually in plenty it wouldn't make a difference, since they are cheap as hell anyway, and therefore are more easily to purchase from others (again, provided there are people who aren't afk). This is true in this case, since many players cba to list things that are nearly worthless. Also, the more time into a league, the demand decreases. It is already harder to sell things at this stage of the current league. This is a natural phenomenon. Standard is a permanent league, and players have a hard time trying to sell something that isn't a near-perf or total perf unique or a crafted mirror-worthy rare. Just to make you realise that EVEN IF AH would overflood the market with items, it doesn't f**king matter, as people get richer and richer with time.

INSTANT BUYOUTS idea is not as bad as some of you claim. Yet you genuinely think it's so harmful and repeat that in like every post.

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Danielskiv wrote:

You can only check traders' names 5 times, because all the rest are hidden. Silly, isn't it?

What are you talking about?

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Danielskiv wrote:

And AH will inevitably cause all that "mayhem".

Mayhem? Where did you get that? Of course it won't create mayhem. Why are you hellbent on putting words in my mouth, exaggerate and hyperbole this to eternity?

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Danielskiv wrote:

The problem is that you claim for some reason that everything will be cheap as hell and easily obtainable, because all of a sudden the whole community will flood the AH with their Headhunters, Skyforths, etc

I don't think I have mentioned neither Skyforth, or Headhunter this thread, please correct me if I'm wrong. Again, words in my mouth. On such rare items, the price will remain about the same, because most of these items are already either used or put up for sale. But I think there are MANY 6L items being unused that is not put up for sale. The same with other good/half-good rares.

Look, more people will trade, that's inevitable. I hope you can agree with me on that. And as easy it is to get certain items now (6L for less than 20c non-corrupted etc), it will be even easier to acquire such items if we get an in-sourced AH that does not require a premium tab, acquisition or something like that. The same with other items, dusting down in tabs of players that don't trade "that much", but will if it's just point, click and "ok", without having to invite them over, leave map or whatever.

It won't be "mayhem". It won't be the end of the world. Nor will it be Ragnarok. But it WILL be easier (and cheaper) to acquire gear. It will, and it's inevitable. I don't really care about the trading part; I care about what will happen to the rest of the game. And I think it's very naive to think that "things will stay the same" regarding drop rates and in-game progression if an AH is implemented. And then we're at the beginning of a slippery slope, where trading becomes even more required than it is today. And no, it's not that required today. It's a nice balance right now.

I don't CARE AT ALL what happens to trade, IF the in-game progression and drop rates stay the same. And if you are to respond to this; please restrain yourself from putting words in my mouth, exaggerate and hyperbole like mad.