beating the dead horse poe.trade AH

"Player interaction" according to GGG:
- "ty"
- "ty"

Yep, dead horse, and diverse solutions that are superior to insta-buy have been proposed in dozens of threads even 3 years ago, so I won't go into this.

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SqualZell wrote:

Some might say this is just manipulating the market to increase or decrease the prices... sure it is, but it's not a "legal" way to do it. it is in all points and facts EXPLOIT for the purpose of scamming.

the "legit" way to manipulate the market prices would be to buy all or most of the said item at it's regular price then put them back up for 2x the price. (this is one way of many to legitimately manipulate the market)

I want to strongly emphasise that on a computer, this is not a "legit" way to do market manipulation (whatever you imagine that is).
It can be easily executed by undetectable bots in high frequency, and while this is legal by law just like the on-going price fixing, both are morally unacceptable.

Judging from other games, high frequency trading is worse than a few temporarily misled newbies. You really don't want to exchange the latter for the former.

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SqualZell wrote:

whatever it is, it has to
1- allow market manipulation through legitimate ways
2- prevent scamming of new or unsuspecting players.

1- Definition: "Market manipulation is a deliberate attempt to interfere with the free and fair operation of the market and create artificial, false or misleading appearances [...]"
2- Have a counter next to the offer, showing how many times a "make offer to buy" has happened. High counters tell us that the seller doesn't actually want to sell. Of course not doable with poe.trade, but easy to track in an in-game reimplementation of poe.trade if the whisper button was transformed into a "make an offer to buy" button.

I'll wade in on this, as a relatively new player.

I've made 3-4 buying trades since I started playing in August. Each time I went to poe.trade, found what I wanted, sent a whisper, etc. 100% smooth and easy.

That said, I would like to be able to 'sell' items as well. I've already purchased extra storage tabs, and at the time, I didn't understand that in order to sell on poe.trade, I'd need the premium stash tabs. So for now, I have several uniques sitting idle, and I pretty much ignore any mention of 'currency' or 'profit' whenever I read/watch a video or guide for POE.

I've read many different posts on why an AH system would be good or bad, and I find agreement on both ends. However, I do not like trading (from a seller's perspective) as it currently is. I can understand the possibility exists that GGG wants to encourage people to buy premium tabs; I wish that wasn't the case, but they have to generate revenue and are entitled to do so.

But unless I find myself buying a prem. tab, given the option of spamming /trade with a macro (instead of actually playing the game) vs. vendoring uniques, I'm afraid I'd pick the latter - and that is a real shame, as it reduces the thrill of finding loot that your characters can't use, beyond whatever crafting currency you could earn from a vendor.

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FedeS wrote:

This:

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Zodr wrote:

an AH does NOT mean there will be actual AUCTIONS, it's just a poor name choice. Call it a mnarket, trade house, what the fuck ever; it is simply an automated system. You list something -> someone else buys it. Simple and effective. No fucking whispers and afks and dnds.

I know!

But why the hell use the word "auction" (AH) when you KNOW that a lot of people - with good cause - would automatically think of auctions when you use the word? It's like you're trying to be misinterpreted.

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Call it a mnarket, trade house, what the fuck ever

Yes, please do!

i think these are all legitimate points. sounds like rmt wasn't the only problem with the system, as some have suggested.



which is no different from the current system, which i have no problem with. my response was to a suggestion that prices be locked and unchangeable. if u can change your price, i don't have a problem with it.



when did i ever imply a doomsday scenario? only suggested that players have a right to change their mind, which some other players don't seem to agree with--ie. the price locking suggestions. i think ur taking my post out of context.



hrm, yes....like the problems that many ppl are pointing out in this thread, that are only minor inconveniences in the worst case scenario--and are easily addressed with some common sense.



it's not an argument. never meant it to be. it's just a simple request for players to be more reasonable. a request for them to think more intelligently about their gameplay--to make an effort to learn to play the game. im just exasperated by the refusal of some players to do so. it just seems like many players come to poe expecting a game that will play itself....



to some degree, yea, sure, i agree, but just because "ppl want it" or "most other games do" is not by themselves good enough reasons to change things. like i said above, lotta ppl seem to want poe to be an easier game that will serve everything up to the player w/o them having to understand mechanics or be thoughtful about their build. does that mean GGG should make poe like that? no.



i agree.



exactly. trade system works just fine. "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

the horse is dead, folks. stop beating it alrdy.

PoE need a trading system, and not rely on third-party junk sites.
Just look at XBox or China, be better than this crap.
As long as they do not fix it, I understand that GGG does not care about bots, scamers, etc ...
Years that were announced improvements, but they never arrive, they do not care, they already have their money.

There are actually many different types of auction houses that have existed over time. Buyouts is a form of AH which is what poe.trade is almost. I don't think people for the most part mean auction as in trying to out bid one another for an item. But more so, just a simple buyout.. if its priced at 1 chaos, can't I just buy it for 1 chaos?

Personally have gotten to the point where I don't even care to interact anymore. Trying to buy leveling gear, low end game gear, currencies in bulk is frustrating to the point where I just auto whisper 5-10 ppl at the same time and wait for someone to invite. I take the item and leave.. I don't even bother telling anyone else that I got it. This system promotes this kind of behavior. I've really tried to be the nice guy and message everyone back and say thanks but I'm tired of it honestly. This isn't interaction, this is just an exchange of goods.. I just want to get something for my build and go play the game.

AH systems have worked in so many games, just because it diablo 3 failed doesn't mean that this game would. I get that chris and company stated they never want an easy way to trade and are against putting up an AH. But the community has come up with easier ways to trade already, poe.trade being the biggest community driven. It has made trading so much easier and people are still flocking to the game, game still growing and people are enjoying it. Ironing out some of poe.trades flaws isn't going to flatline this game at all. This game is far deeper then D3 to have that happen.

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Saevan wrote:

In hideout vendor, linked to players 'public' stashes.

No bots (well, reduced bots), no short sale scammers, no need for seller to be present (GGG adds a flag to allow hideout access for trading).

Players can buy and sell with less hassle and GGG sells more MTX. Everyone wins.

No thanks, i have no desire to go to others hideouts just to buy stuff, slow loading and zone crashing, and dc's from loading cause me enough headache

I love when real world economics and legalities get thrown in and layered over a video game of pixels.

Yeah yeah, RMT and all that, but come on that is barely applicable. And against EULAs (which are questionably enforceable anyway).

It is simply fascinating, and appalling from a game perspective, what has been achieved in the PoE economy, especially over the last 2 years.

Also: "phylosophy" - the study of delicious baklava

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Slaanesh69 wrote:

I love when real world economics and legalities get thrown in and layered over a video game of pixels.

Yeah yeah, RMT and all that, but come on that is barely applicable. And against EULAs (which are questionably enforceable anyway).

It is simply fascinating, and appalling from a game perspective, what has been achieved in the PoE economy, especially over the last 2 years.

Also: "phylosophy" - the study of delicious baklava

Honestly when people pull the ''RMT'' excuse they are just showing how ignorant they are. As if there is no RMT happening right now (oh wait there is huge spam in every world chat to go to X website to buy chaos/ex).