The Illusion of Choice

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Azidonis wrote:

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funshynebare wrote:

Nothing screams a weak game system than one where the only way to challenge yourself is to bind your hands and feet and wear a blindfold.

You do realize that many of the "huge differences" between min-max builds and "average" builds is usually pretty minimal, percentage-wise, right?

Example...

Player 1: "Everyone uses Fireball now because it's the strongest skill in the game. It's OP."
Player 2: "Man, that's a bunch of shit! Now there is no skill diversity at all because everyone is forced to use Fireball or suck!"
Player 3: "The actual difference between Fireball and 11 other skills is only about 5%".

Player 1: "That's a big 5%! Nerf Fireball by 5%!!!!11!!!1!1!!"
Player 2: "That 5% means that everyone is forced to use Fireball, or else they will be seriously gimping themselves by 5%."
Player 3: "You both realize that 5% of 2,000 is 100, right? 100 damage is hardly a reason to reroll your character, or call for across the board adjustments."

Player 1: "I still think it needs a nerf, or everything else needs a buff.
Player 2: "That still means that in order to get the most out of our precious characters and our precious play time we have to use Fireball, or we are just losers who don't know what we are doing."
Player 3: "Sigh... Just be happy they were able to get them all within 100 damage of each other?"

Player 1: "No."
Player 2: "No."
Player 3: "Whatever."

Best Dialogue Ever.

that's what WoW is facing.

i feel terribly sorry for the dev guys....

at least it won't happen in this game... we have awesome alpha members

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Dudebag wrote:

that's what WoW is facing.

i feel terribly sorry for the dev guys....

I feel sorry for the franchise....its the Devs that put it there.

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Azidonis wrote:

Player 1: "Everyone uses Fireball now because it's the strongest skill in the game. It's OP."
Player 2: "Man, that's a bunch of shit! Now there is no skill diversity at all because everyone is forced to use Fireball or suck!"
Player 3: "The actual difference between Fireball and 11 other skills is only about 5%".

Player 1: "That's a big 5%! Nerf Fireball by 5%!!!!11!!!1!1!!"
Player 2: "That 5% means that everyone is forced to use Fireball, or else they will be seriously gimping themselves by 5%."
Player 3: "You both realize that 5% of 2,000 is 100, right? 100 damage is hardly a reason to reroll your character, or call for across the board adjustments."

Player 1: "I still think it needs a nerf, or everything else needs a buff.
Player 2: "That still means that in order to get the most out of our precious characters and our precious play time we have to use Fireball, or we are just losers who don't know what we are doing."
Player 3: "Sigh... Just be happy they were able to get them all within 100 damage of each other?"

Player 1: "No."
Player 2: "No."
Player 3: "Whatever."

Quoted for great justice.

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Azidonis wrote:

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funshynebare wrote:

Nothing screams a weak game system than one where the only way to challenge yourself is to bind your hands and feet and wear a blindfold.

You do realize that many of the "huge differences" between min-max builds and "average" builds is usually pretty minimal, percentage-wise, right?

Example...

Player 1: "Everyone uses Fireball now because it's the strongest skill in the game. It's OP."
Player 2: "Man, that's a bunch of shit! Now there is no skill diversity at all because everyone is forced to use Fireball or suck!"
Player 3: "The actual difference between Fireball and 11 other skills is only about 5%".

Player 1: "That's a big 5%! Nerf Fireball by 5%!!!!11!!!1!1!!"
Player 2: "That 5% means that everyone is forced to use Fireball, or else they will be seriously gimping themselves by 5%."
Player 3: "You both realize that 5% of 2,000 is 100, right? 100 damage is hardly a reason to reroll your character, or call for across the board adjustments."

Player 1: "I still think it needs a nerf, or everything else needs a buff.
Player 2: "That still means that in order to get the most out of our precious characters and our precious play time we have to use Fireball, or we are just losers who don't know what we are doing."
Player 3: "Sigh... Just be happy they were able to get them all within 100 damage of each other?"

Player 1: "No."
Player 2: "No."
Player 3: "Whatever."

I never knew the difference between stacking HP versus armor/evasion was only a 5%, minimalistic difference.

Or that the difference between a GMP freezing pulse and a conc effect frost nova was only 5%.

You know, lots of people talk to themselves. They say you're only crazy if you talk back though.

Are we still arguing that the ability to make inferior choices = a wide selection of diverse builds?

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Nonsensei436 wrote:

Are we still arguing that the ability to make inferior choices = a wide selection of diverse builds?

Yes. Care to rejoin?

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Dudebag wrote:

that's what WoW is facing.

i feel terribly sorry for the dev guys....

at least it won't happen in this game... we have awesome alpha members

Ok I was going to just reply to the OP but this made me laugh. SOME of the alpha testers are awesome. Others simply want the alpha under thier name to pretend to be cool.

But awesome or not being an alpha tester means NOTHING when GGG is willing to make major balance changes as close as a week before they put a patch (OB) live. Seriously, did you see Kripps stream roughly a week before OB and listne to the alpha testers on his stream talking about changes they made? Or how about Kripp being in the top 2 or 3 level wise and only just starting maps when he was streaming alpha and GGG had just done a character wipe with major changes just before he started streaming. Your telling me the alpha testers have any chance to comment on endgame balance when only a handfull at most even made it to endgame?


I love the game. I'm going to continue to play the game and support GGG. But people need to get thier heads out of the clouds. GGG has alot of problems as a developer. ALL new dev teams do. I just hope (and have faith) that GGG will improve loads over the next few months/years. They arent dumb. They know they pushed OB out to fast without really testing major balance changes. Thats why I'm glad they are fairly quiet right now about what they are doing with melee and other changes. It gives me hope they are actually letting the alpha testers do thier jobs and test changes before they go live in basically the same shape (or in horrible shape) like it happened when OB launched. If you want to tell me I'm an idiot thats fine. I'll just point you in the direction of how bad CI is atm or how OP chain+LA still is. The list is much larger than that obviously but thoes are 2 major points right now. Melee was still behind in CB, it just got worse with the damage output in merciless act3 and maps.

anyone who is quitting based on lack of choice.....

can I have you stuff?