The Illusion of Choice

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jnali wrote:

I wouldn't even care about this if it wasn't for the fact that people like you just LOVE to shout your misinformation until you drag a game down or discourage people from playing. But you are all BS, and someone needs to drag YOU down from your soapbox shouting and bludgeon you with facts and information.

Well said

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jnali wrote:

I wouldn't even care about this if it wasn't for the fact that people like you just LOVE to shout your misinformation until you drag a game down or discourage people from playing. But you are all BS, and someone needs to drag YOU down from your soapbox shouting and bludgeon you with facts and information.

TL;DR: Stop it; stop it; stop it! Please make him stop! He's making me angry, and you wouldn't like me when I'm angry!

If I wasn't right, this thread wouldn't have gone past 4 pages, let alone 10.

But at no point have you even begun to refute what I said. That the most optimized builds are what I listed.

Instead your only defense against my statements is "who cares. play what you want. You can make any build and play".

No one can argue that. But the difference is that people like who, who just play to play, wouldn't care about balance changes. Wouldn't care about ability buff/nerfs. Because you just play the game to play it.

So, once again, I must ask. Why are you even in this thread spouting your "free love man. play to play. enjoy it for the sake of enjoyment", when it's obvious what you enjoy is just playing the game, while what I enjoy is trying to squeeze the most out of every build.

I'm was simply pointing out that every build I create with a new character revolves around what I listed in the first post. That I can't move away from them without making a subpar build.

Someone already said it

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Nonsensei436 wrote:

Are we still arguing that the ability to make inferior choices = a wide selection of diverse builds?

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Nonsensei436 wrote:

Are we still arguing that the ability to make inferior choices = a wide selection of diverse builds?

Apparently we are.

I haven't read the entire thread so maybe this has already been stated by others.

I don't have to have the best build to enjoy the game. I'll play my character as far as I can and then start another one when I hit the wall. I'll keep the old character around so that I can pass over new equipment as I find it with other characters. In time, that old character may be playable again with the better equipment.

As the game grows older, more and better equipment will circulate. A character that is not feasible now may be feasible later.

I understand there are people that only enjoy a game if they have the 'best' build that they found on the internet. Magic: the Gathering is full of people like that. That's not for me. I enjoy my own builds even though I know 99% of the time they won't complete with the 'net build.

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funshynebare wrote:

If I wasn't right, this thread wouldn't have gone past 4 pages, let alone 10.

The thread is a huge number of people telling you how inane your argument is. Perhaps our well-crafted rebuttals simply weren't min-maxed quite well enough?

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But at no point have you even begun to refute what I said. That the most optimized builds are what I listed.

Rly?
Srsly?
Rly srsly?

Ladies and gentlemen, I am in a battle of wits against an unarmed man. The rest of this should be interesting.

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Instead your only defense against my statements is "who cares. play what you want. You can make any build and play".

No one can argue that. But the difference is that people like who, who just play to play, wouldn't care about balance changes. Wouldn't care about ability buff/nerfs. Because you just play the game to play it.

No, the point that EVERYONE here is trying to make is that there are a SLEW of builds that, while not min-maxed, are STILL EFFECTIVE. How this one simple point that has been reiterated ad nauseum has escaped you is just utterly beyond me. You may actually be hopeless. Certainly I'm starting to feel a good bit of despair at this point.

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So, once again, I must ask. Why are you even in this thread spouting your "free love man. play to play. enjoy it for the sake of enjoyment", when it's obvious what you enjoy is just playing the game, while what I enjoy is trying to squeeze the most out of every build.

I'm was simply pointing out that every build I create with a new character revolves around what I listed in the first post. That I can't move away from them without making a subpar build.

Because I'm a crazy, liberal, tree-hugging, tie-dye wearing, long-haired, pot-smoking, vegan hippie freak!

Is that what you want to hear?

I'll just hold off on my answer until the next part...

Wait for it...

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Someone already said it

Wait for it...

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Nonsensei436 wrote:

Are we still arguing that the ability to make inferior choices = a wide selection of diverse builds?

And there you have it folks!

He still doesn't get it.

...Along with that other guy as well, but yeah.

You CAN make "inferior" choices. They aren't foisted upon you though broken game system, like the D3 WW Barb example. The game doesn't hold your hand as you build your character to prevent you from "breaking" it. The game ALSO doesn't punish you for making non-broken yet "sub-optimal" builds.

What's "sub-optimal"? Well, we haven't really defined that, have we? What is sub-optimal to YOU may not be sub-optimal to ME.

Perhaps you just want to kill everything as quickly as possible in a single-player endgame map run, but I want to support a whole TEAM of people. Chances are good that our builds are different, but which one is sub-optimal?

Perhaps I have a thematic build for the lulz that takes a few more minutes to clear a map than your min-maxed, life-node stacked build. Does anyone really care... other than you?

There are TONS of builds that work. The first few pages of this thread are nothing but people telling you that you are full of crap while linking builds and gear that are working just fine.

Pages of them.

Seriously, I actually looked through the builds to get ideas.

Most were pretty inspired, actually.

So here's your argument from the initial post; these are your own words:

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"If you don't follow these guidelines, the moment you hit end-game you will be struggling. If you did, then you'll be face rolling."

Here's a summary of the MANY pages of responses:

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Ur doin it ron.

This will always happen in games like this,

For example look at DOTA.

Only about 20-30% of the heros are used on a regular basis, if that.
That group of heroes will change over patchs and depending what top teams are doing.
This doesn't mean the other heros cant be used in pub games for fun.

PoE is exacly like that. the meta will change over time, and there will be a set of top builds, but that doesn't mean you have to use them to have fun unless you want to.

Fact of the matter is they borked the scaling when they introduced act 3 and tried to make the game tougher than what it really needs to be.

Closed beta scaling was pretty much spot on, it was tough and required skill to progress. Open beta scaling is pretty bad and makes the game honestly more frustrating than fun.

It's not about making builds equal, it's just about the viability of things when your goal is to have fun and not to min/max. That doesn't mean the game needs to be faceroll easy or that dying doesn't need consequences and there should be no skill or challenge involved. It just means that there should be a fun element to it rather than a super frustrating element.


I'm hoping it changes back to how it was in CB and they adjust the scaling so that it remains challenging but it provides for more diversity

This post gets so many comments because there is truth in the OP's assessment that resonates with many players.

Personally, I'm not as overly concerned with the current game state, I'm more concerned with the direction.

The latest swath of changes and patches from the closed to open beta were negative. Builds are restrictive now, 80% of the passive nodes are simply invalid.

Before the detractors start their standard issue "everything is fine" responses, the question is -- Was closed beta more fun than open? The answer is yes. Few can explain why it's better after open, and how the direction not the state of game is better.

I have to wonder if the people saying armor/evasion is worthless have even played the game or ever made even a half-decent build. Running into a room full of flicker mobs and half of them missing you because of decent evasion can be the difference between life and death.

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aplsin wrote:

I have to wonder if the people saying armor/evasion is worthless have even played the game or ever made even a half-decent build. Running into a room full of flicker mobs and half of them missing you because of decent evasion can be the difference between life and death.

I have 95% avoidance because of flame totem/LMP/blind and enfeeble.
I also have 90% mitigation with a flask, enfeeble, and endurance charges.

But I'm sure those passive points skilled into armor/evasion are great!You have what? Base 50%? Amazing!