Weekly Beta Report Two

EDIT -- My initial math was wrong, for anyone who read this earlier i'm terribly sorry. I'll update this with the correct math because i was dumb and people should know what actual dps is. The math on POB of course is correct, just dont know where it all went wrong. Props to Ferox28 for catching my rather large mistake.

Well i think i found the thing everybody is talking about with Viper Strike. Remember this is POB data so take it with a grain of salt but with time and for skilled players this could be very achievable.

At lvl 87 with about 20ex or more worth of gear you can hit about 100k total damage with each poison using a Viper Strike Assassin build. The 100% MORE modifier to dots inflicted with crits is actually unreal... This is a pretty large oversight on the part of the devs and while the interaction with Perfect Agony is nice, the numbers involved are not.

https://pastebin.com/Ny3FfFzA


Lets look at us having a 6 second window in which to deal damage with Viper Strike on shaper while he's firing his lazerbeams. Remember that Viper Strike poison lasts for 8--- or 11+ sec(if you've killed a maimed enemy recently) and we're dealing 100k damage PER SECOND with each poison, stacking a guaranteed poison 7 times a second due to multistrike/faster attacks. These values are based on the vs. Shaper/Guardian category in POB.

Corrected Napkin Math time. This is calculated including flasks and Vulnerability. This does not factor in shock, wither or killing a maimed enemy recently.

23k poison dps x 7 hits/s = 161k poison damage per second or 1.3m poison damage. Again this damage is dealt over ~8-9 seconds so it isn't greatly indicative of our actual dps yet but we've only attacked 7 times so far(6.93 attacks per second) and only have 7 poisons applied.

Now lets factor in that we're doing this for 5-6 seconds straight because we have our window while he's lasering and by some miracle you haven't needed to move yet. The damage starts to get ridiculous at this point and afterwards you can run around for the next 8 seconds and watch his health drain.

1.3m poison damage x 6sec of attacking = 7.9m damage over 15 seconds from all the poison damage. Thats still only an average of 526k dps with poison alone. That also means that for 2-3 seconds(before the first stacks of poison start to fall off) shaper is taking about 1m poison dps, not too shabby. Of course that 5-6 sec ramp up time for that is a bit much and likely unrealistic. Props to the ele hit guy on page 22 lol.

Without the Toxic Delivery Ascendency we would lose ~50% of the poison damage. That's like fighting Shaper with lvl 1 Chain support as a pseudo-7-link for Viper Strike.

Realistically you would probably end up with only 4-5 seconds to stand and dps but better gear can make up for that loss in damage. Then throw in the Viper Strike hit damage, golem w/ decay, Wither Totem, Shock, warchief, whatever else you feel like and its only going to get more and more crazy. Nearby Crit Multi nodes on the tree can get you another 10k damage per poison by level 91

If you want to do it with less than 20ex than you'll just need good rings and a good weapon and skip a bunch of other nice gear, you guys know the drill. And after redoing all of this math, doing this amount of damage for 20ex seems a bit low already lol. Well, I guess i need to just stop for now, having hopefully fixed my awful blunder from earlier.

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This build is by no means perfect either, some gear will be expensive and some can be crafted but you can definitely squeeze out more multi and things like that out of uniques and tweak it for even more damage. But that Toxic Delivery Ascendency node... speccing into that quite literally doubles your damage(100% more poison damage with crits) and it is going to be a problem if left untouched.

I really don't like wrecking the chances of other builds using Perfect Agony because one Ascendency makes perfect use of it. Time to look at the problems.... Assassin and More Multiplier skills like Fire nova mine or Shield Charge(for decay but they enable lots of things they shouldn't, at least not so easily/powerully).

GGG you guys are smart. And i apparently am dumb when doing this. Still, i feel the nerfs should still be localised to the problem areas and not umbrella nerfs that take the whole system down too.

Thanks for dealing with my shit-math everybody. Hopefully i fixed all the problems...

hmm mid july to august. owell waiting is part of the game. im not worrying about being in beta, so im just going to wait to see it when it comes out. I still am hopeing for some gates on rng on how gear affixs are rolled. like going by Item level and its only able to roll certain tiers. it is still stupid for end game items you identify and they roll with the lowest tiers on them its just to rng for me and for me after all these years endgame is kinda boring. This game is starting to promote more single solo playstyle as an online game to me it should be about grouping up and playing with friends not just getting on a build and doing a map within 2-3 min and repeat by yourself. It just gets boring rng is fine, but with new item rolls and stuff it is going to be way to rng and makes trading more important except there is no in game trading system which makes it just dumb to rely on a outside trade site.

YEA THE FEEL OF THIS GAME WANTS TO BE LIKE D2, BUT DO WE ALSO HAVE TO HAVE THE NEED OF AN OUTSIDE TRADE SITE ITS LIKE D2JSP WITHOUT FORUM GOLD. its a pain and retarded in the current gaming era. the lack of trading system and the tedious grind and getting garbage gear and just having to trade for up grades for casuals suck. oh but were getting 6 new acts and a pantheon system people should just be glad were getting that. blah blah blah. core and simple game mechanics like an auction house or in game dictionary to explain broken mechanics without the need to google everything. like i mean tool tips that dont explain how other multipliers add to the damage. like conc effect or stuff like that. we need stuff to explain stuff in game. not everyone has 2 or 3 monitors and alt tabbing sucks.


Hideout Decorations and Crafting Benches in Beta
Giving players access to their hideout decorations and crafting benches is another issue we have been working on and expect to have a solution for soon. Hopefully earlier than the microtransaction system issue (though they are potentially related).

about that just give all players level 8 masters or unlock the masters decoration or if its the players there own that they unlocked or paid for. Just give players all access to all the decorations during the beta. its seperate and it will give players who dont have the means to play with it. able to play and test and see for themselves how it is to see if they might want to buy them for the main one. Thats what i would do. just open up mtx and let the players explore them to see how they like them.

you want peoples oppinions and mostly you want the ones that go with your idea ggg or majority rules kind of thinking. This is a fun game and cant wait to play it. been playing since 2011, but glad its getting a even feel of a lvling before end game. but again it all comes down to the feel of endgame. Chris said before that if we get players to make it to endgame you have them by statistics. well its just getting boring.

if you dont want players to get to high maps increase the difficulty of monsters life and damage make it hard so they have to work for it. make it so that they cant be completed within 5 min. Make it so you need a group to play with. its a online game you want player interaction so make it so you need or more want to play with friends. not to make trading the best way of interaction. D2 was fun at end game doing baal runs, bc of 8 player full games with friends playing the game together. lately i feel like doing 8000 baal runs back then was more fun then doing 1000 maps solo, bc gear and drops are more efficient, bc your not having to worry about someone else getting a drop that you need so you can save up and use it to sell, bc finding upgrades is so hard that i feel like unid chaos recipes are the way to go and just save chaos up to get gear, because the lack of finding upgrades is more rare then finding a ex sometimes. we need a balance.

yet rant is over and why i bothered to write this idk. i just read and started typing how i felt the need to say what i felt.

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Wooser69 wrote:

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CBEToffOP wrote:

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CBEToffOP wrote:

Also i want to ask:
Nodes such as:
1) Increased physical damage with one/two handed weapons.
2) Increase physical weapon damage.
3) Increased melee physical damage while holding a shield.
Will they increase bleed damage?, OR ONLY PURE PHYSICAL INCREASE NODES?

Anyone?

Bleed damage is not increased by anything that specifies melee physical or a weapon type. Right now only pure physical, damage over time or bleed-specific increases affect bleed damage.

So how will Bleed Passive tree looks like?
Stat nodes + Speed nodes, because almost all nodes have some prefix/suffix which goes with increase physical damage and apply only to weapons, which is unneeded!

Decay is OP in level while it sucks at endgame, 1 socket for such dot is just mediocre, non-stackable and only a few to boost its damage.
What about reconsider the 20lvl damage of it?

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Wooser69 wrote:

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Torin wrote:

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Vakyoom wrote:

I read this post a couple times to make sure you were wrong and you were. He didn't 'lash out' at anyone in his entire post. If you think bold and underlined words are lashing out then sucks to be you... That's emphasis on important parts of the discussion and was used in a useful fashion.

As for the rest of your post... You're another one of those guys with a magical 4m dps tooltip that doesn't use assassin right? Or is it that viper strike build with 30 sec ramp up time like I've seen floating around?

I'd like to see anybody link some crazy non-assassin DoT build that's doing 1m dps without a huge time frame or ramp up. I'm serious. Post them here so I can stick them in pob myself and see that shit and we'll tell the whole world. I'll take my beating 100% if there are more than a couple builds hitting numbers that high that don't use decay enabling more modifier skills or assassins Dot modifier.

But it has to be real and it has to be verifiable by anybody else that sees it.

At this point if feels like ggg has been messing around in pob and forgot to turn off EE or left it on normal mob damage and thought they were really looking at shaper dmg... Idk. Trying to make sense of changes this drastic at this stage in the beta is not working for me. So, no sarcasm at all here, somebody ACTUALLY bring a build that does extreme dps without being assassin OR ''more decay shenanigans" and we can all feel better.

But for now it's just people claiming these high numbers when the people who theory all the time couldn't pull similar numbers out of The Count's ass. Somebody is doing something wrong and it has to get sorted out before this gets too much farther.

Here you go: https://pastebin.com/TRSNaA5S

This is with EE and Vaal LT active on your target. THey are already nerfting this one in the patch but not nearly as much as poison and decay versions.

I know that by pasting this GGG will probably now nerf it even more :D

This shows 700k vs Shaper with all buffs including shock and uses soul mantle without kikazaru, while eeking out 5.5k ehp. Not exactly the 4 million that other guy was claiming.

it's funny because you can't even shock the shaper or uber atziri outside of split phase. pointless to include that in the calcs.

Keep up the good work, appreciate the dedication.

I really do not like the dot changes at all, since they are too harsh. With all these changes you will end up dealing about 50% less damage of the current dps, crit based builds even more.
I mean 39% more ailment damage vs 88% is a huge difference. Also there is still the hit dmg penalty. This support gem feels the worst of all that are available for dots then.

Perfect Agony has a strong impact when building crit on dots nerfing this is a good point but i think more than a 50% nerf is too much.

The biggest impact, specific for poison melee based builds, will be the brutality change in my opinion. Since the only good alternative for the melee splash gem is brutality when dealing single target damage. Multistrike would also be a good alternative but i feel multistrike is too crucial for melee aoe too since you randomly attack targets around you and apply your stacks more spread. So you end up with 2 red gems one them melee splash that does not improve boss damage at all. Without brutality there are no benefcial red gem alternatives for melee poison based builds.

excited to test the changes though.

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Vakyoom wrote:

Lets look at us having a 6 second window in which to deal damage with Viper Strike on shaper while he's firing his lazerbeams. Remember that Viper Strike poison lasts for 8--- or 11+ sec(if you've killed a maimed enemy recently) and we're dealing 100k damage PER SECOND with each poison, stacking a guaranteed poison 7 times a second due to multistrike/faster attacks. These values are based on the vs. Shaper/Guardian category in POB.

where do you see those 100k dps per poison stack? its even impossible without an abyssus + other gear with increases to poison dmg or a perfect rolled weapon.

nevermind.found it

Jeez, take me back to 2.4.

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Ferox28 wrote:

I really do not like the dot changes at all, since they are too harsh. With all these changes you will end up dealing about 50% less damage of the current dps, crit based builds even more.
I mean 39% more ailment damage vs 88% is a huge difference. Also there is still the hit dmg penalty. This support gem feels the worst of all that are available for dots then.

Perfect Agony has a strong impact when building crit on dots nerfing this is a good point but i think more than a 50% nerf is too much.

--- snip ---

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Vakyoom wrote:

Lets look at us having a 6 second window in which to deal damage with Viper Strike on shaper while he's firing his lazerbeams. Remember that Viper Strike poison lasts for 8--- or 11+ sec(if you've killed a maimed enemy recently) and we're dealing 100k damage PER SECOND with each poison, stacking a guaranteed poison 7 times a second due to multistrike/faster attacks. These values are based on the vs. Shaper/Guardian category in POB.

where do you see those 100k dps per poison stack? its even impossible without an abyssus + other gear with increases to poison dmg or a perfect rolled weapon.

Did you put the pastebin into pob? With the gear and tree I linked I could easily achieve 99k dps for each poison and another 22k with nearby nodes by early 90's.

It's really scary when a single ascendency takes your poison dps per poison from 48k to 100k...

EDIT -- i was so wrong with the math. back to the drawing board. poop.