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Q:What's that bow skill that does chaos damage, but doesn't count as an ailment or poison?
A: Caustic Arrow
I love this skill but the investment to make it work endgame is huge. As Boss life increases, CA falls farther down on the list of end game content builds, and takes it's place on the list of builds that aren't worth the investment or effort to play.
Please GGG, show Caustic Arrow some love.
Decay support was supposed to be the new and useful caustic arrow but now they nerfed it to almost caustic arrow usefulness... and caustic arrow can scale of projectile nodes and support as well.
Only way to scale decay in addition to chaos and damage over time are minions, traps or mines.
Last edited by Torin on Jun 22, 2017, 8:06:53 AM
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Posted byTorinon Jun 22, 2017, 7:54:16 AM
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2) Why would you use Brutality for Poison builds? There are no reasoning to it!
So only reason for Brutality will be for BLEED builds!
Gaining extra MORE and losing such as Atziri's Promise and Ming's Heart.
Perfect Agony WTF?
30% from crit multiplier!?
I understand that if you chose Poison build than you don't give a mind to damage from hits, so 25% or 30% less damage from hits doesn't matter!
But do you really think any would invest so many passive point to Crit and Multi to get just 30% of its investments?
ONLY ASSASIN would choose Poison-Crit build BUT ONLY FOR 100% MORE Poison damage From CRITS! , but will not invest in ANY CRIT MULTI nodes which can be bypass!!!
Before verbally lashing out at ppl you should maybe get a calculator, do some theory crafting and some math and even after that you could bring up constructive criticism, not destructive one (that hasn't any foundation to begin with).
As an fyi: i crafted a viperstrike build that could very well do 4.000.000 dps on shaper and 12.000.000 on non boss monsters (not that you would ever need that) with 3 flasks and vaal lightning trap. Sustaining that dmg wouldnt be hard and now looking at the main source of my dmg Perfect Agony made up freakin 70% of my TOTAL dps. Let it sink ... 70% of 12.000.000 / 4.000.000 shaper dps. This nerf is very well justified and the power of the node is being reduced by about 60%. Dont you think picking up crit multi could be still worth it even when the power of this node was reduced by 60% when it originally made up 70% of your total dps? Then we have Deadly Ailments which was too good to be true from the beginning and ppl should have realized it; i was like "is this gem a joke or you for real?" when i saw that 88% more.
Another foreseeable and justified nerf. So far so good but now we come to Brutality. As a prenote on your "why would you use Brutality" question: Poison resulting from a physical hit is scaled by chaos damage AS WELL as physical damage. That being said, you should understand that Brutality is quite a strong source of damage increase on your poison. I think this is a bit going overboard, though. Perfect Agony was way too strong and Deadly Ailments really wasn't in line with other support gems, but nerfing brutality leaves poison builds in an unplayable state imho. All of those nerfes adding up, i deal about 82% less dmg with my previously crafted build.
CBEToffOP you should get your information straight before hammering down on ppl and even then you shouldnt hammer down anybody to begin with.
GGG please reconsider doing this with Brutality.
Viper Strike is only skill in the game that can reach these numbers.
So do we nerf critical, decay, brutality, ailment supports and rest or maybe, just maybe nerf viper strike instead so other skills are now not useless.
Last edited by Torin on Jun 22, 2017, 8:03:04 AM
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Posted byTorinon Jun 22, 2017, 8:02:38 AM
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2) Why would you use Brutality for Poison builds? There are no reasoning to it!
So only reason for Brutality will be for BLEED builds!
Gaining extra MORE and losing such as Atziri's Promise and Ming's Heart.
Perfect Agony WTF?
30% from crit multiplier!?
I understand that if you chose Poison build than you don't give a mind to damage from hits, so 25% or 30% less damage from hits doesn't matter!
But do you really think any would invest so many passive point to Crit and Multi to get just 30% of its investments?
ONLY ASSASIN would choose Poison-Crit build BUT ONLY FOR 100% MORE Poison damage From CRITS! , but will not invest in ANY CRIT MULTI nodes which can be bypass!!!
Before verbally lashing out at ppl you should maybe get a calculator, do some theory crafting and some math and even after that you could bring up constructive criticism, not destructive one (that hasn't any foundation to begin with).
As an fyi: i crafted a viperstrike build that could very well do 4.000.000 dps on shaper and 12.000.000 on non boss monsters (not that you would ever need that) with 3 flasks and vaal lightning trap. Sustaining that dmg wouldnt be hard and now looking at the main source of my dmg Perfect Agony made up freakin 70% of my TOTAL dps. Let it sink ... 70% of 12.000.000 / 4.000.000 shaper dps. This nerf is very well justified and the power of the node is being reduced by about 60%. Dont you think picking up crit multi could be still worth it even when the power of this node was reduced by 60% when it originally made up 70% of your total dps? Then we have Deadly Ailments which was too good to be true from the beginning and ppl should have realized it; i was like "is this gem a joke or you for real?" when i saw that 88% more.
Another foreseeable and justified nerf. So far so good but now we come to Brutality. As a prenote on your "why would you use Brutality" question: Poison resulting from a physical hit is scaled by chaos damage AS WELL as physical damage. That being said, you should understand that Brutality is quite a strong source of damage increase on your poison. I think this is a bit going overboard, though. Perfect Agony was way too strong and Deadly Ailments really wasn't in line with other support gems, but nerfing brutality leaves poison builds in an unplayable state imho. All of those nerfes adding up, i deal about 82% less dmg with my previously crafted build.
CBEToffOP you should get your information straight before hammering down on ppl and even then you shouldnt hammer down anybody to begin with.
GGG please reconsider doing this with Brutality.
I read this post a couple times to make sure you were wrong and you were. He didn't 'lash out' at anyone in his entire post. If you think bold and underlined words are lashing out then sucks to be you... That's emphasis on important parts of the discussion and was used in a useful fashion.
As for the rest of your post... You're another one of those guys with a magical 4m dps tooltip that doesn't use assassin right? Or is it that viper strike build with 30 sec ramp up time like I've seen floating around?
I'd like to see anybody link some crazy non-assassin DoT build that's doing 1m dps without a huge time frame or ramp up. I'm serious. Post them here so I can stick them in pob myself and see that shit and we'll tell the whole world. I'll take my beating 100% if there are more than a couple builds hitting numbers that high that don't use decay enabling more modifier skills or assassins Dot modifier.
But it has to be real and it has to be verifiable by anybody else that sees it.
At this point if feels like ggg has been messing around in pob and forgot to turn off EE or left it on normal mob damage and thought they were really looking at shaper dmg... Idk. Trying to make sense of changes this drastic at this stage in the beta is not working for me. So, no sarcasm at all here, somebody ACTUALLY bring a build that does extreme dps without being assassin OR ''more decay shenanigans" and we can all feel better.
But for now it's just people claiming these high numbers when the people who theory all the time couldn't pull similar numbers out of The Count's ass. Somebody is doing something wrong and it has to get sorted out before this gets too much farther.
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Posted byVakyoomon Jun 22, 2017, 8:04:05 AM
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2) Why would you use Brutality for Poison builds? There are no reasoning to it!
So only reason for Brutality will be for BLEED builds!
Gaining extra MORE and losing such as Atziri's Promise and Ming's Heart.
Perfect Agony WTF?
30% from crit multiplier!?
I understand that if you chose Poison build than you don't give a mind to damage from hits, so 25% or 30% less damage from hits doesn't matter!
But do you really think any would invest so many passive point to Crit and Multi to get just 30% of its investments?
ONLY ASSASIN would choose Poison-Crit build BUT ONLY FOR 100% MORE Poison damage From CRITS! , but will not invest in ANY CRIT MULTI nodes which can be bypass!!!
Before verbally lashing out at ppl you should maybe get a calculator, do some theory crafting and some math and even after that you could bring up constructive criticism, not destructive one (that hasn't any foundation to begin with).
As an fyi: i crafted a viperstrike build that could very well do 4.000.000 dps on shaper and 12.000.000 on non boss monsters (not that you would ever need that) with 3 flasks and vaal lightning trap. Sustaining that dmg wouldnt be hard and now looking at the main source of my dmg Perfect Agony made up freakin 70% of my TOTAL dps. Let it sink ... 70% of 12.000.000 / 4.000.000 shaper dps. This nerf is very well justified and the power of the node is being reduced by about 60%. Dont you think picking up crit multi could be still worth it even when the power of this node was reduced by 60% when it originally made up 70% of your total dps? Then we have Deadly Ailments which was too good to be true from the beginning and ppl should have realized it; i was like "is this gem a joke or you for real?" when i saw that 88% more.
Another foreseeable and justified nerf. So far so good but now we come to Brutality. As a prenote on your "why would you use Brutality" question: Poison resulting from a physical hit is scaled by chaos damage AS WELL as physical damage. That being said, you should understand that Brutality is quite a strong source of damage increase on your poison. I think this is a bit going overboard, though. Perfect Agony was way too strong and Deadly Ailments really wasn't in line with other support gems, but nerfing brutality leaves poison builds in an unplayable state imho. All of those nerfes adding up, i deal about 82% less dmg with my previously crafted build.
CBEToffOP you should get your information straight before hammering down on ppl and even then you shouldnt hammer down anybody to begin with.
GGG please reconsider doing this with Brutality.
I read this post a couple times to make sure you were wrong and you were. He didn't 'lash out' at anyone in his entire post. If you think bold and underlined words are lashing out then sucks to be you... That's emphasis on important parts of the discussion and was used in a useful fashion.
As for the rest of your post... You're another one of those guys with a magical 4m dps tooltip that doesn't use assassin right? Or is it that viper strike build with 30 sec ramp up time like I've seen floating around?
I'd like to see anybody link some crazy non-assassin DoT build that's doing 1m dps without a huge time frame or ramp up. I'm serious. Post them here so I can stick them in pob myself and see that shit and we'll tell the whole world. I'll take my beating 100% if there are more than a couple builds hitting numbers that high that don't use decay enabling more modifier skills or assassins Dot modifier.
But it has to be real and it has to be verifiable by anybody else that sees it.
At this point if feels like ggg has been messing around in pob and forgot to turn off EE or left it on normal mob damage and thought they were really looking at shaper dmg... Idk. Trying to make sense of changes this drastic at this stage in the beta is not working for me. So, no sarcasm at all here, somebody ACTUALLY bring a build that does extreme dps without being assassin OR ''more decay shenanigans" and we can all feel better.
But for now it's just people claiming these high numbers when the people who theory all the time couldn't pull similar numbers out of The Count's ass. Somebody is doing something wrong and it has to get sorted out before this gets too much farther.
Here you go: https://pastebin.com/TRSNaA5S
This is with EE and Vaal LT active on your target. THey are already nerfting this one in the patch but not nearly as much as poison and decay versions.
I know that by pasting this GGG will probably now nerf it even more :D
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Posted byTorinon Jun 22, 2017, 8:11:54 AM
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The DoT changes are very disheartening. Done with beta for now, not interested in testing when it was a struggle just to get a non-ED poison/chaos DoT build to feel somewhat decent. Now I think that is gone with both the gem nerfs and the Perfect Agony keystone nerf...
Might return once 3.0 is released and things are "balanced" for a few months before being jerked around again.
I know I sound more and more negative with every new reply I post, but the game is losing a lot of fun with every release and patch, so it seems. These first waves of beta changes were fun to play with and, yes, some where a little over the top and I expected them to be scaled back, but there is a big difference between scaling something back and outright stomping on it. For "balance" changes, I feel that GGG has been doing the latter for far too long now and the game just isn't as fun anymore.
Perhaps, if 3.0 still feels the same after release, it will be time to say goodbye to PoE.
FFS it beta, if you think shit not going to change than your an idiot.
If your build now suCKS, play another build, there 100s of build you can successfully play in POE.
I think you misunderstood. Where else are you supposed to give input on the fact that you believe continually nerfing is hurting the game? Isn't the whole point of the beta to discuss and give feedback.
It's perfectly legitimate feedback to say that the current over nerfs I have seen substantially limit the number of end game viable builds available to players and that if the nerfing cycle continues for an extended period there will only be meta builds based around the newest items introduced, legacy items and that most other builds will be crap and not viable endgame (I mean killing Uber,shaper, guardians and high T maps).
I don't believe an add and then nerf cycle is good for the health of the game. Shift meta that's fine. Nerf broken things to a weaker but still useable level sure. Don't destroy entire mechanics because meta builds - you kill several more builds because you were trying to weaken one.
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Posted bySamson001on Jun 22, 2017, 8:17:26 AM
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I understand the need to nerf DoTs but I think the values might be a bit low now. The ramp-up time is already nasty on some builds.
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Posted byergoduckon Jun 22, 2017, 8:27:38 AM
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played alot this game and dont have a damn beta key fuk this
🅰🅻🅸🅽 ::: ! ♥ PoE ツ 👌 :::
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Posted by4linon Jun 22, 2017, 8:39:04 AM
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Please make a server for Middle Eastern players :/ PoE is almost unplayable at times because of lag :/
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Posted byConztantineon Jun 22, 2017, 8:40:20 AM
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I understand the need to nerf DoTs but I think the values might be a bit low now. The ramp-up time is already nasty on some builds.
They only needed to remove double dipping and that is!
But they remodeled it and made as NEW separate build.
But many players when used double dipping to deal huge damages they still used leech mechanics from hits to sustain received damage before enemy melts!
But now if you want to invest in Poison build you have to neglect HIT damage, so no useful leech amount from it! You can use Gain Life per Hit but i don't think it will be enough!
If you want Hit and Run build just used ED, moreover they buffed it and there is new Efficacy Support which is perfect for ED!
Or 2H-weapon and BLEED with EarthQuake and lure him to follow you!
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Posted byCBEToffOPon Jun 22, 2017, 8:44:31 AM
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Before verbally lashing out at ppl you should maybe get a calculator, do some theory crafting and some math and even after that you could bring up constructive criticism, not destructive one (that hasn't any foundation to begin with).
As an fyi: i crafted a viperstrike build that could very well do 4.000.000 dps on shaper and 12.000.000 on non boss monsters (not that you would ever need that) with 3 flasks and vaal lightning trap. Sustaining that dmg wouldnt be hard and now looking at the main source of my dmg Perfect Agony made up freakin 70% of my TOTAL dps. Let it sink ... 70% of 12.000.000 / 4.000.000 shaper dps. This nerf is very well justified and the power of the node is being reduced by about 60%. Dont you think picking up crit multi could be still worth it even when the power of this node was reduced by 60% when it originally made up 70% of your total dps? Then we have Deadly Ailments which was too good to be true from the beginning and ppl should have realized it; i was like "is this gem a joke or you for real?" when i saw that 88% more.
Another foreseeable and justified nerf. So far so good but now we come to Brutality. As a prenote on your "why would you use Brutality" question: Poison resulting from a physical hit is scaled by chaos damage AS WELL as physical damage. That being said, you should understand that Brutality is quite a strong source of damage increase on your poison. I think this is a bit going overboard, though. Perfect Agony was way too strong and Deadly Ailments really wasn't in line with other support gems, but nerfing brutality leaves poison builds in an unplayable state imho. All of those nerfes adding up, i deal about 82% less dmg with my previously crafted build.
CBEToffOP you should get your information straight before hammering down on ppl and even then you shouldnt hammer down anybody to begin with.
GGG please reconsider doing this with Brutality.
I read this post a couple times to make sure you were wrong and you were. He didn't 'lash out' at anyone in his entire post. If you think bold and underlined words are lashing out then sucks to be you... That's emphasis on important parts of the discussion and was used in a useful fashion.
As for the rest of your post... You're another one of those guys with a magical 4m dps tooltip that doesn't use assassin right? Or is it that viper strike build with 30 sec ramp up time like I've seen floating around?
I'd like to see anybody link some crazy non-assassin DoT build that's doing 1m dps without a huge time frame or ramp up. I'm serious. Post them here so I can stick them in pob myself and see that shit and we'll tell the whole world. I'll take my beating 100% if there are more than a couple builds hitting numbers that high that don't use decay enabling more modifier skills or assassins Dot modifier.
But it has to be real and it has to be verifiable by anybody else that sees it.
At this point if feels like ggg has been messing around in pob and forgot to turn off EE or left it on normal mob damage and thought they were really looking at shaper dmg... Idk. Trying to make sense of changes this drastic at this stage in the beta is not working for me. So, no sarcasm at all here, somebody ACTUALLY bring a build that does extreme dps without being assassin OR ''more decay shenanigans" and we can all feel better.
But for now it's just people claiming these high numbers when the people who theory all the time couldn't pull similar numbers out of The Count's ass. Somebody is doing something wrong and it has to get sorted out before this gets too much farther.
Here you go: https://pastebin.com/TRSNaA5S
This is with EE and Vaal LT active on your target. THey are already nerfting this one in the patch but not nearly as much as poison and decay versions.
I know that by pasting this GGG will probably now nerf it even more :D
So while you made a valiant effort this is a build that dual wields doryani's catalyst, relies on totems to do the work for you and even with the rest of the gear filled out BARELY hits a 5k life pool(Even with MoM factored in)... This is not a viable build, it is something that has been thrown together with the intent of hitting the highest numbers possible. Also, those numbers drop down to less than 750*k dps when you're vs shaper(which is the whole point of this discussion, the only numbers discussion that matters is what dmg is vs bosses) so... lucky you have 3 totems i guess?
While its somewhat impressive that you hit 1m something with a DoT build(its vastly less impressive because of it being RF) you're using Soul Mantle on a life build and its not using the main point of this entire post, DoT Ailments. I wasn't terribly specific in my asking so i guess i'll revise the criteria...
I would like to see pastebin links to a couple 1m+ dps builds ON SHAPER that can do this amount of dps with ailments or decay WITHOUT using assassin or more-modifier skill activation and without a 10+ sec ramp up time. So far we've had a 750k* dps triple RF totem build with sub 5k life. Looking for actually viable builds so keep trying everybody.
Again, no sarcasm. Lets see those builds so its all out in the open. :)
edit - for typo -- build hit 738k on shaper, not 75k. sorry about that!
second edit - Also its good to see that Efficacy works with RF. I stopped working on a build last week because RF and efficacy wasn't working in POB and the POB dev said it was specifically designed not to work like that... Glad he caught the issue and fixed it.
Last edited by Vakyoom on Jun 22, 2017, 10:05:57 AM
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Posted byVakyoomon Jun 22, 2017, 8:46:01 AM
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