Announcements - Development Manifesto: Changes to the Labyrinth - Forum

It thematically makes no sense to remove the difficulties from the game by now having 10 full unique acts, then keep the 3 times repeated lab/trials thing. Will we still be facing Brutus, Merveil, Malachai, etc 3 times? It's bad game design, honestly.	Posted by Deleted on May 16, 2017, 9:38:33 AM
" Astealoth wrote: The lab is extremely problematic and shortening the trivial early ones is not helpful or wanted. The content is broadly hated, but the rewards are so insanely powerful that you have very little choice but to participate in it. You can't just ignore them and go on with your life and have a competitive character, considering that the other content is tuned with the expectation that you have done the lab. The problem is, the rest of the game is much more diverse and inclusive. Every tier of map up to T17 has something for just about every kind of build and every skill level of player to tackle. The lab is extremely specific in what is required to finish it. The traps and boss require precise twitch movement beyond what the majority of the game requires or extreme physical resistance beyond what the majority of the game requires. This makes the lab itself very build and/or player dexterity exclusive. This is not in line with the majority of the game's content, yet much of the game's content benefits significantly from the rewards of the lab. There is a terribly abusive design problem going on here just in the core mechanics of combat and traps in the lab. Then there is the reward structure beyond the basic skill point progression. You simply can not expect to enchant your own helmet with something relevant to your primary skill within the time spans of a league. It is not possible, you would have to devote 100% of your time to the lab for the entire league to even dream of a hint of a chance. So, no SSF enchanting, period. Not going to happen, maybe 1 in 1000 SSF players might get a relevant enchant on the timescale of a league. So we're forced to trade for our helmets and sell the helmets we enchant. That's fine for most people perhaps, but what if you use an uncommon helmet? Oh my goodness, someone dares to play a suboptimal self designed build in this game? String them up by the heels and flog them in the eye until they vomit blood! That scrub wears a T2 helmet, HA! Is this really what the game needs? Who at GGG genuinely believes that this enchant system makes sense? Thank you , spot on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!	Posted by Devonor#2471 on May 16, 2017, 1:11:22 PM Quote this Post
yes lab is the least joyable part of this game. Would not mind if it was optional. Rather have it as a nice addition to the game than a forced speedbump. Enchants are awsome and fit well in the lab but ascendancy points are to valuable for any build to have locked behind timeconsuming content only beatable to specific builds. Last edited by Walltrigger#5210 on May 16, 2017, 3:13:39 PM	Posted by Walltrigger#5210 on May 16, 2017, 3:12:02 PM Quote this Post
" Archwizard wrote: You are sadly, sadly mistaken. Also, everyone that says shit like "nobody likes X" needs to knock it the hell off. You don't speak for everyone. State your opinion, keep it to that. You have no damned idea what everyone, or the majority of people even, like or don't like. Remember that people are much more inclined to report when unhappy than when happy and that what is seen here on this forum is a small fraction of what's going on in the game in terms of experiences. Finally, I like the lab. Not mistaken or lazy as i have done the trash you call labs and its not fun nor is it worth the time invested period. You can quote your opinion same as I have done mine and the majority as you can see on forums concurs with me that the Lab is just a giant waste of time. 1 out of 10000 player run lab for loot because its annoying, dc's make you start over and to top it off if you get a lag spike because of the trash servers you die and repeat. It's ok the blind will always follow the blind.	Posted by steven0006#1294 on May 16, 2017, 10:58:16 PM Quote this Post
Disappointing to hear. Repeating the lab 4 times is incredibly boring when you've already played 30+ characters considering it's forced content. This is a bad decision.	Posted by Nicksiren#6476 on May 17, 2017, 12:47:09 AM Quote this Post
" steven0006 wrote: " Archwizard wrote: You are sadly, sadly mistaken. Also, everyone that says shit like "nobody likes X" needs to knock it the hell off. You don't speak for everyone. State your opinion, keep it to that. You have no damned idea what everyone, or the majority of people even, like or don't like. Remember that people are much more inclined to report when unhappy than when happy and that what is seen here on this forum is a small fraction of what's going on in the game in terms of experiences. Finally, I like the lab. Not mistaken or lazy as i have done the trash you call labs and its not fun nor is it worth the time invested period. You can quote your opinion same as I have done mine and the majority as you can see on forums concurs with me that the Lab is just a giant waste of time. 1 out of 10000 player run lab for loot because its annoying, dc's make you start over and to top it off if you get a lag spike because of the trash servers you die and repeat. It's ok the blind will always follow the blind. For starters, the forums do not reflect the totality of player opinion. Second, other than forums, what sources do you use? I run a guild with 174 people in it, so I have a decent size sample pool in addition to the forums, other friends, etc. Third, have you ever even looked at poe.trade for prices of certain enchants? They can be very lucrative and there are many people that run the lab just to farm them. You don't like the lab, that's fine. If the servers and game experience are so bad, find something else that doesn't upset you so much. But stop being a judgmental ass towards people that enjoy different things than you. Support a free Hong Kong. I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. -Galileo Galilei	Posted by Archwizard#2334 on May 17, 2017, 1:56:31 AM Quote this Post
" Nicksiren wrote: Disappointing to hear. Repeating the lab 4 times is incredibly boring when you've already played 30+ characters considering it's forced content. This is a bad decision. Yes, it really is a bad decision. The community is also on its way of becoming split in 2 ( feels like ). This also creates more hostile community towards each other ( it's already hostile and toxic enough imo by far ). Why not come up with a solution that both parts can live with and try to unite us ggg? Seriously !!! I have stopped spending dollars on this game, I know I am not the only one lol. It's a reason for this. As long as ggg do stupid unnecessary decisions and slowly destroy this game I am not spending money, simple. I have been hoping that ggg would grow to become a big company. Big as in one of the biggest game companies in the world, its great developers in ggg, what a shame. I believe this company could make many good games just like Blizzard for example. The lab, for example, could be an own game, it's a great concept if it was just that another game. I think "the haters" are in majority, probably like 70/30 ish but realistically more like 80/20. Most players don't bother reading or/and voice their opinions in the forums, twitter etc and just plays the game and when it becomes shit they just leave. My impression of what the players i have been talking to think about the lab and wants for the game.	Posted by Devonor#2471 on May 17, 2017, 5:10:23 AM Quote this Post
Huh? I swear there were like 10 times more pages so what happened? Why delete so many posts??	Posted by Johny_Snow#4778 on May 17, 2017, 5:46:44 AM Quote this Post
I also think that the Lab has some issues. Especially in harder difficulties it serves more the top-tier/meta players. What really shows that there is something wrong with the lab are party-offerings like: -"Merc Lab carry 3c" -"Uber lab - your offering, my loot" etc. For me this shows, that people are even willing to pay someone just to get their ascendency points. I think (and hope) that GGG had not that in mind when they designed the Lab. A few ideas that - in my opinion - would ease the tension around the labs. 1. Make all the labs easier, shorter, especially in the harder difficulties. Or just remove the hardcore aspect - like as with maps, you can have 6 portals, you can die 6 times. 2. Leave all the labs as they are, but the first 2 labs should reward ascendency points (like 4-4) and the last 2 should give the ability to enchant. This way people who dislike the lab could get their passives early and can shop their helms/boots later without the lab. Hardcore/meta/uber-lab-liking players can get the enchants and make some profit for their efforts. (If then enchanted item prices rise, more people will do harder labs - the market it will get even, but will still reward those who do the hard labs)	Posted by dinobin#2553 on May 17, 2017, 7:21:31 AM Quote this Post
" Johny_Snow wrote: Huh? I swear there were like 10 times more pages so what happened? Why delete so many posts?? Not in this thread there were not. Support a free Hong Kong. I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. -Galileo Galilei	Posted by Archwizard#2334 on May 17, 2017, 8:33:15 AM Quote this Post