Development Manifesto: Changes to the Labyrinth

I see people are just lazy to do anything these days. They want toys without an effort.
Labyrinth is an optional thing and whoever wants a treasure must deal with it. It´s simple as that.
Hi all, Hi GGG
I'm not so f**king lazy but, I do hate lab and do love ascend. To my mind, lab breaks the lvling rythm and story and it will be worse with a single walkthrough.
When I'm playing, I'm so enjoyed by lvling, getting some stuff, etc and **fuck, I've to run lab, praying GGG gods not to die in the last fight and crying in my mother pants when I get slayed by a skeleton during a freeze**
So, labs sucks to me, I'd prefer ascending to be included in the story, with a similar difficulty but not that mechanics.
Proposal : keep 3 fights with Iza, the only way to access fights would be character lvl (35 - 55 - 75 - 95) and could be rewards of lvling Masters or annexe quests or part of the Lore.
Please don't throw me rotten eggs in the face ;)

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Rakiii wrote:
I see people are just lazy to do anything these days. They want toys without an effort.
Labyrinth is an optional thing and whoever wants a treasure must deal with it. It´s simple as that.


Nobody cares about the treasure or anything about lab except for skill points for ascendancy. People want a ARPG not a TrapBananza1ShotShitShowCrashForYouAtLastBossBattleBecauseOurServersSuckDonkeyBalls
trash that Lab is. Remove the thing 90% of the player base quits over and uninstalls this game over. Majority of people that buy supporter packs arnt buying one for 3.0 or probably any after that update due to GGG not giving 2 shits about what people want same downfall Blizzard is having with diablo 3 hence why nobody plays that trash game either.

Also nobody is asking for it to be free ascendancypoints or free treasure we are simply asking for the devs to do 1 of 2 things:

1. Remove the bullshit lab period
2. Leave the lab and make it so ascendancy points are not provided by lab completion but instead given after boss (or "GODS") that you kill in the process of the game.

I choose them to do the ladder and just remove the lab as it provides 0 fun to the game only frustration and people uninstalling your game due to incompetent design features.
I was really hoping there'd be more labyrinths god damn I was hoping for either another ascendancy class for each character or another set of passives. Sigh.

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steven0006 wrote:

...
2. Leave the lab and make it so ascendancy points are not provided by lab completion but instead given after boss (or "GODS") that you kill in the process of the game.



I agree with this so hard.
Ascending gradually as you progress throughout the content just feels more rewarding rather than completing trials and avoiding traps, especially if the reward is gained after killing a boss.
Last edited by xierxe on May 16, 2017, 6:32:35 AM
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Rakiii wrote:
I see people are just lazy to do anything these days. They want toys without an effort.
Labyrinth is an optional thing and whoever wants a treasure must deal with it. It´s simple as that.


Remember, its just a game, and game have to bring fun and lab isn t fun.
steven0006 - you mean vocal minority of the players (smth like 0.1% of the player base)

They put lots of effort to design the lab so asking for removing it is rly cheap.

I see no real feedback from that minority, just things such as "remove that bullshit".

I would make it shorter (will happen), remove some trap gauntlets and add more monster packs.

All that hate is coming from game is being too fast these days. "Hey, I can make shaped strand under 1 minute so won´t bother with labyrinth for 10 minutes, I need my reward now".


Bamzyniigata It´s just your opinion but I like the unique design behind the lab and especially the Izaro fight.

What´s fun for you then? Playing 100s of shaped strand maps till the end of the world ... ?
Try to ask yourself how to change the lab to be more fun for me.

Last edited by Rakiii on May 16, 2017, 6:43:37 AM
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Astealoth wrote:
The lab is extremely problematic and shortening the trivial early ones is not helpful or wanted.

The content is broadly hated, but the rewards are so insanely powerful that you have very little choice but to participate in it. You can't just ignore them and go on with your life and have a competitive character, considering that the other content is tuned with the expectation that you have done the lab. The problem is, the rest of the game is much more diverse and inclusive. Every tier of map up to T17 has something for just about every kind of build and every skill level of player to tackle.

The lab is extremely specific in what is required to finish it. The traps and boss require precise twitch movement beyond what the majority of the game requires or extreme physical resistance beyond what the majority of the game requires. This makes the lab itself very build and/or player dexterity exclusive. This is not in line with the majority of the game's content, yet much of the game's content benefits significantly from the rewards of the lab. There is a terribly abusive design problem going on here just in the core mechanics of combat and traps in the lab.

Then there is the reward structure beyond the basic skill point progression. You simply can not expect to enchant your own helmet with something relevant to your primary skill within the time spans of a league. It is not possible, you would have to devote 100% of your time to the lab for the entire league to even dream of a hint of a chance. So, no SSF enchanting, period. Not going to happen, maybe 1 in 1000 SSF players might get a relevant enchant on the timescale of a league. So we're forced to trade for our helmets and sell the helmets we enchant. That's fine for most people perhaps, but what if you use an uncommon helmet? Oh my goodness, someone dares to play a suboptimal self designed build in this game? String them up by the heels and flog them in the eye until they vomit blood! That scrub wears a T2 helmet, HA! Is this really what the game needs? Who at GGG genuinely believes that this enchant system makes sense?
Well said.GGG dump the damn lab already.
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Bamzyniigata wrote:
"
Rakiii wrote:
I see people are just lazy to do anything these days. They want toys without an effort.
Labyrinth is an optional thing and whoever wants a treasure must deal with it. It´s simple as that.


Remember, its just a game, and game have to bring fun and lab isn t fun.


Still nobody cares about the treasure or the helm enchants they arent worth the pixels they are drawn on. All we want is our ascendancy points and to move on to map farming/atziri farming/shaper farming/etc, you know where the real end game is.

"
Rakiii wrote:
steven0006 - you mean vocal minority of the players (smth like 0.1% of the player base)

They put lots of effort to design the lab so asking for removing it is rly cheap.

I see no real feedback from that minority, just things such as "remove that bullshit".

I would make it shorter (will happen), remove some trap gauntlets and add more monster packs.

All that hate is coming from game is being too fast these days. "Hey, I can make shaped strand under 1 minute so won´t bother with labyrinth for 10 minutes, I need my reward now".


Bamzyniigata It´s just your opinion but I like the unique design behind the lab and especially the Izaro fight.

What´s fun for you then? Playing 100s of shaped strand maps till the end of the world ... ?
Try to ask yourself how to change the lab to be more fun for me.



Many companies put a lot of effort to design things that get removed here is just a few to name off top of my head:

1. Diablo 3 Real Money Auction House: This was updated & changed 100s if not 1000s of times and more hours spent creating it paying lawyers to make sure they cant be sued over it etc. Yet removed due to player base seeing it as a way for people to pay 2 win since loot was based around it.

2. Diablo 3 PVP 2v2 3v3 4v4. All shown at Blizzcon in 2011 yet scrapped and that was a lot of work trashed because why? THE MAJORITY DIDN'T WANT IT! Here is a video of it in case your mind cant wrap your head around it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZrGE3VLiSk

That's just 2 examples of work, from a company that makes billions, that time was spent on (which is way more money and time than POE will ever have to use or spend on their game) for it to be trashed.

Yet you are saying "boohoo the 1 dev that created the lab would be so upset that his shit idea was canned because people don't like it so we cant ruin his work we must keep it even if it sucks donkey balls". Instead of embracing the fact that people want a ARPG not a Lab that you have to spend majority of your time standing still doing nothing. Tuns of action in that A bro?

Anyways there is no changing someones mind that is stuck on the "boohoos" of a devs work that might be trashed and their time wasted when in fact this happens to probably 9 out of 10 ideas that majority of game makers work on because it doesn't fit what the community wants, or they cant deliver what they promised, or they don't like the idea anymore.

Either way GGG will find on 3.0 they arnt making money like they were they will find the deciding factor is trash lab still in game they will remove it and fix the problem and then we can all go about our mery way.
As the majority here I also do not like the labyrinth very much. The whole "trap-idea" just do not fit into the concept of an action-rpg. The Izaro fight is tough but makeable.

Overall running the labyrinth in the current state is not fun, I just do it for the ascendancy class points.

The best solution would be to have only one labyrinth run in act 3 to receive your ascendency class, after that the points for this class are done by just reaching different levels.
In addition there could be one special endgame labyrinth map just for special items to find.
We Convoke Nebular Dimensions
As Real As The Realms We Ride
With None Above
And None At Side
Last edited by Allspark501 on May 16, 2017, 7:36:05 AM
Stop crying like bitches, I had to do 100 labs to get my 40 challenges and you don't see me crying. The lab can be a few minutes if the day's layout is favorable. Not to mention you only do all the trials once per league for all chars.

You ingrates like your Ascendancy rewards just fine, just don't feel like working for 'em.
Last edited by Xfing on May 16, 2017, 8:15:23 AM

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