is juggernaut overshadowed by berserker?
" Ive never rly come across anything I couldnt tank with my juggernauts, I dont rly see that as an issue. If you look at all the alkiezer death videos what has he died from voer last few leagues? Vol blood, that 1 shots both chars, neither survive a 1 shot. The molten strike? He wasnt actively tanking and would have died on a zerker, the chayula breach, wasnt actively tanking, would have died. Those sort of builds are ONLY tanky when theyre leeching, I think the truth is that they die, I dont think running around with leech, no matter how op the leech is, running around with that as your only defenses is pretty shit. If you have a 14k life pool to back that up then sure, it can be enough for the most, with a life build? Not for me thanks, its just a shit version of ci, and even my over 14k es instant leech ci characters have a good 14k evasion backing that up. My experience is that 14k life pool, instant huge leech + 14k evasion, in practice the only thing I feel safer against with those sort of stats is vol blood and an occasional spell boss, most of the time it feels as tanky as my juggs or less so. Doing the same thing with like 7k, 8k life? I feel like thats pretty poor. Can tank through a degen? Yeah sure, when ur tanking, and when ur not tanking ur sitting there draining life on degens where a build without vp just outregens them. I think vp is shit on life builds, I never play with it on life, terrible, almost everyone I know who plays with it dies a fair bit and thinks ci is vastly superior to life, because the way they play life really is shit compared to ci. If you try and turn life into a shit version of ci then youll succeed and thats exactly what ull end up with in my experience. |
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idk if it's better on life or ES, but cloaked in savagery does seem really strong.
the reason i posted this thread was because i saw a recent vid of liftingnerd's lead molten strike zerker. damn he was facetanking some bosses with only like 6.5k life. with the vaal pact and cloaked in savagery, he looked like he wasn't even taking any damage. i think this was the vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94X_-uMMOjI i can't facetank like that with my jugg. just don't have enough dmg or leech. *edit: or vaal pact for that matter, lol so comparing the 2 ascendancy's, especially with everyone's mention of kaoms roots and devotos, kinda seems like juggernaut is edged out by zerker. Last edited by nealn on Mar 26, 2017, 3:13:17 AM
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" you can tank all of shapers attacks and skills as a juggernaut ? " volatile blood is a special animal, I wasnt talking about it- to me, its one of the most bs mechanics even though it can be played around nowadays with melee. and yes, leech builds can only tank when they leech, which is almost all the time- and Ive addressed this. as long as you can get an attack/cast fast enough and hit the mob, you have constantly good defense. " when you outregen a degen as a regen build, you are taking a HUGE hit against mob hits because your regen now fights degens so you dont recover life as fast from taking hits. whereas as long as leech builds leech, it doesnt matter and defense is constant. this is why leech builds and life zerker can leech through shapers beam, and life regen tanks 99.99% of the time cannot. I mean, its basic math, and its really obvious on regen-dependent builds like RF. now Ive ran probably over 5 different RF builds, so I know a thing or two about degens. when you barely outregen the degens from mods on the map, your defenses from regen are nonexistent- your regen fights with degen so you regen slowly against multiple hits that you will take. and if you play life builds with VP, you usually have one emergency health flask for those degens. "this is why a life-based berserker can sleepwalk tank through shaper beam and his balls, but Im still waiting to see a non-instant leech life based juggernaut to do it. ok. | |
" anything instant leech is more powerful than not instant leech. its just how the game works. so, cloaked in savagery is really strong only when paired with instant leech. otherwise, its almost completely irrelevant as non-instant leech caps at 20% of life pool per second. you easily get that amount just off regular leech in most cases. only against bosses does it help a bit, but again- it's almost literally wasted in most cases. cloaked in savagery just gives that cheap sustain without needing to invest into vinktars, atziris promise and high fast damage output. what instant leech provides is a way of replenishing all of your life as instantaneously as you want as long as you hit the damage * leech = your pool threshold. vinktars, cloaked in savagery (leech stacking) or high damage are just some means of getting to that threshold remove instant leech and cloaked in savagery will be fairly useless. imagining that instant leech doesnt exist, I think people would actually pick some other nodes more often than not (that stun immunity if killed recently would probably be picked) in the zerker tree. and zerker itself might be the least popular class if instant leech and double dipping are completely removed. | |
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After removing instant leech, on top of regen having nerfed in the past, on top of armour being crap, on top of evasion being crap, what can a player do to survive? Some people might say "hurr durr, overpowered ES", but even ES is floating due to instant leech.
I don't think top down, extremely zoomed in gameplay can accommodate for Dark Souls interactions. And is that the end focus of a dungeon crawler to begin with? Last edited by Apos912 on Mar 26, 2017, 10:20:50 PM
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"whats wrong with the game wanting to kill you ? a couple of years back GGG stated it wanted to kill players who played HC. making people investing more into defenses will kill two birds with one sone also, with more people investing in defenses instead of offense causing the power creep to at least stall. right now the only reason there is a chasm between t15s and top content is the guardians/shaper/uber's HP pool so bursty damage and emptying the entire clip of flasks doesnt work as well. and instant leech users laugh at these limitations because its not there for them | |
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take a max block toon. it needs to invest a good amount in defenses. a max block toon with 20k armour and AA, along with using fortify and a basalt, with 7k life is actually quite sturdy and is able to handle all the content in the game with some achilles heel exceptions such as degens and DD.
he will have less leeway for mistakes against mechanical bosses than his ES counterparts, but thats because ES is also busted atm. its possible to build sturdy characters with life and no instant leech, contrary to peoples opinions. its just that with instant leech and ES its trivial to stack defense and these toons end up doing far more damage because they dont have to invest much in defense. their offense is their sustain. | |
" The most Dark Souls moment in the entirety of Path of Exile, is the Vaal Oversoul and Atziri fights: relatively harmless RNG, with telegraphing roughly relative to lethality. Same as in Dark Souls, what you can do there is, "don't get hit". See also: CI EB Atziri kills, level 1/no-hit runs. (Souls games are damn tightly designed, hence the unfortunate "git gud" culture) 's Yeah, it's not the Souls-like interactions you should be afraid of, because that's the easy part. It's gonna be fun to see people figuring out how to build actual defences again if instant Leech is nuked. If. | |
" Atziri works, but there is a limit to how many times you can strike gold and with how many mechanics. Also, if so many life builds are to be taken into account, there's not much room left anymore for building other defences. The only reliable form of defence left will be endurance charges(edit: And MoM). So might as well remove ranger and shadow from the game. Last edited by Apos912 on Mar 26, 2017, 10:44:22 PM
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" a ranger investing in acro+dodge, evasion and having some one-shot prevention (basalts, toh/coil, cwdt+ic) just does fine. especially since most of the time ranger is ranged. as far as investment goes, thats the point. that stuff you invest in damage for ES/vp toon, you invest in defenses. now life could use some more choices of life sources on the tree (so people dont gangbang the scion's wheel), but in general non-vp life is in a fairly ok spot now, its that ES and instant leech are so retarded right now, theres no comparison. |
