is juggernaut overshadowed by berserker?

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Mythabril wrote:

Kaom's Roots have no move speed. Juggernaut gets move speed on top of Unstoppable and boots with 4 sockets and 30% move speed. They're not even on the same level.

The loss of 30% movement speed in exchange of the best attribute the Juggernaut class has. You're right, they aren't on the same level :p

I think the juggernaut is better personally.

Kaoms Roots are shit, no movespeed, unwavering stance, no sockets? Any one of those stats alone would make them a pair of boots I would never use.


You can get such gross amounts of armour that you can happily stack evasion to full power levels along side it while having stun immunity, freeze immunity, slow immunity, ele damage reduction via endurance node or fortify etc. Any time I play a melee build without evasion its either got high block or it feels really bad. I know people like VP zerker and they just stack life and leech, forget defenses, forget stuff like regen. Defensively thats shit, its just a really poor version of a defensively lacking ci build who only stacked es and vp, I dont think it really uses life to its potential. But if its more the damage you care about then thats the way to go. If you care more about defense then juggernaut is a lot better imo.


For me Ive never seen anything in zerk that would make me pick it over juggernaut, ever. I guess its just a preference thing, depends what you care about with your builds, how you play them etc.

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Juggernaut is overshadowed by the changes to Kaom's boots. The only valuable attritubute the Juggernaut has is the ability not to get slowed beyond base speed. This means immunity to temp chains, freezing, frozen ground, just about anything that wrecks melee. You lose the movement speed, but Devoto's and 3 nodes can get them back for you. Then you can go Slayer or Beserker or whatever and stack damage. Juggernaut is dead thanks to a pair of boots lol.

They stupidly nerfed EC because omg, having ECs all the time clearly breaks the game lol. I think Slayer is probably the best melee class right now. The leech never being capped by full HP means you are essentially immortal moving through maps. It also generates some serious damage and cutting elemental reflect in half is also amazing as elemental damage shreds life builds.

Jugg is still OP for lab though. And i also love the slayer but ill put berserker over it. High life and vaal pact is strong amd you will have it easier especially on end bosses,also higher damage and more versatility.On my zerk i facetank 99% of the fights including guardians with dangerous rolls and get easy 3rd shaper phase since i use his clone to power up my savagery passive,which enables me to face tank everything else. Also slayer cuts the phys reflect and not elemental+even the phys wont help when you get stronger and on higher tier maps.

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Mythabril wrote:

Kaom's Roots have no move speed. Juggernaut gets move speed on top of Unstoppable and boots with 4 sockets and 30% move speed. They're not even on the same level.

Depends, if youre on a Kaoms already you can definitely sacrifice the boots and slot in a Devotos and get that speed back for the most part, you just need really good rares to make up for that but definitely doable.

Id say that Kaoms roots are actually best on CI/Low Life, funny enough, not best for Life. They fix everything on those builds and you can just whirling blades/shield charge/lightning warp and you really dont need the movespeed.

Unwavering stance kills it for me.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

I know people like VP zerker and they just stack life and leech, forget defenses, forget stuff like regen. Defensively thats shit, its just a really poor version of a defensively lacking ci build who only stacked es and vp, I dont think it really uses life to its potential.

wait what ?

a vp berserker with like 7k life can facetank anything in the game.

juggernaut, not so much.

how exactly is that 'shit defensively' ? not to mention, you can finetune CWDT so the 'savage' hit instantly procs some mediocre spells that refill you right after, and then you have free 4 seconds to deeps while standing in any crazy degen and other fuckery you wish to stand in.

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The leech never being capped by full HP means you are essentially immortal moving through maps.

this is incorrect.

leech not being capped simply means leech is now regen.

non-instant leech still has a cap, so 20-25-30 % regen per second is obviously nice, it really doesn't make you immortal in any way, shape or form.

a non-instant leech/regen toon will still die from 2 large elemental hits in the span of half a second, even with a 50% effective regen. because thats how math works, and how regen/non-instant leech ticks work

a cloaked in savagely VP berserker will only die to 1 shots provided he can get one attack/cast after the initial hit. thats it. the rest is simply irrelevant. he can be standing in 20% life/sec degen as well as getting hit for half his life every .3 seconds, but as long as the zerker can attack/cast faster, hes immortal.

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Vipermagi wrote:

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grepman wrote:

how exactly is that 'shit defensively' ?

It has literally no defences, for one? No armour, no evasion, no block, no dodge, no blind, nothing what so ever.

ok, but it has instant leech with cloaked in savagery, which makes it defacto better than all of these mechanics, as long as you can hit and damage the enemy in a relatively short interval.

including all of the achiless heels of these defenses, it covers. that poorjoys DD that my full block toon cant block ? instant leech will take care of it. that bonespire phys that only phys reductions work on ? not a problem
elemental damage or phys spells or RT ? no prob. those boss debuffs to your dodge ? irrelevant.

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If you just want to abuse Vaal Pact, ES is de facto better than Life because it relies solely on having a fat buffer. Life allows you to build defences and become tankier despite the reduced buffer.

if we're talking about raw es vs life, sure

berserker offers you a life-based way of providing instant leech benefit with no external investment.
you dont need a vinktars or a good skill to use it then. the more damage node and cloaked in savagery is literally all you need. one provides damage, the other funnels it into best form of defense currently in the game. berserker take almost any skill considered 'shit' by many, including namelocking skills, and facetank highest content as long as ST damage is there and there are no one shots.

will it be worse than a top ES build that ALSO uses instant leech from survivability standpoint ? yes.

will it be miles better for facetanking tough content compared to the amount of investment employed by conventional defenses ? no doubt

and this is why instant leech HAS to go or at least be addressed heavily.