Everyone dishes ES, but can we take into account the obscene requirements to be "end-game" viable?

Yes, ES reaches 10K easily for most build, even more if you have the luxury of using a shield and that is terrible because it allows for people to survive sources of damage that they otherwise shouldn't, like for example...auto attacks of high tier maps with mods.

And that is somehow a problem? Why? How have we come to the point where if you don't have:

At least 10K effective HP through raw ES or End/HP or HP/MoM
and
At least 100K Dps (before flasks unless you're pathfinder and can maintain them)
and
At least 1% leech feeding off that DPS with vaal pact OR using totems so that you can dedicate all your time avoiding damage instead

Then your build is shit. Not just mediocre, just plain bad, since there is no middle of the road and you either fulfil these requirement or you find yourself at like 20K DPS. Which is the majority because only a handful of skills can stack enough "more" modifiers to get there.

Why is this still supported as meaningful difficulty? I don't care if Shaper or Uber Atziri one shot me me when I don't avoid their one shot mechanic. I wouldn't care if the code of skills even actually said "deals 100% of HP as true damage". But when Core Malachai with as many as 3-4 mods one shots 99% of builds simply by throwing poop at them, the problem is the 1% of builds that actually survive it?

This masochism is not getting us anywhere if you ask me. Well, apart from getting us towards a Path of Exile where playing anything else except for totems and you might as well just kill yourself with Blood Rage to prolong the inevitable.

just have to wear this and i get a total of 500% ES on my Str summoner

when its better stacking a Life generating to get Energy shield than to get life... there is a problem

"

Sexcalibure wrote:

just have to wear this and i get a total of 500% ES on my Str summoner

when its better stacking a Life generating to get Energy shield than to get life... there is a problem

Not saying there isn't. Just saying that the problem is that life has been downgraded to being shit. Making ES shit doesn't solve anything. It will only get everyone to using totems since the only option left will be to avoid damage completely. With minor exceptions like some berserker builds that can facetank even Shaper.

Other examples would be so many skills that became viable with Sprinkler and only with Splinker this patch. When you need to have your str turned to an overpowered stat that gives a crap ton of fire damage in order for the skill to function properly, maybe, just maybe the bar was a bit too high for them?

Well, the ES is rarely considered a problem by itself, ususally it's ES + VP combo, aka instant leech that scales with your dps. Without too much details: it's so op that developers of Diablo 3, the most powercreep-focused arpg on the market, decided to nerf it 100% in the end-game. That says something...

I agree that nerfing the combo should go along with nerfing incoming damage. I think it's enough to just nerf some spell-like mechanics of bosses/volatiles etc. You know, the non-atrack non physical one shotty ones, where your armour and evasion is useless.

@Sexcalibure

But but.. you lose that zombro leech :(

"

Turbodevil wrote:

@Sexcalibure

But but.. you lose that zombro leech :(

Lose?

you mean Gain

Theme Build FOR THE WIN!

Es gone "Shit" also on open beta.

Still though,with half es given from items,es will be on par.

I'll give you an example.

When i am reaching

When i am reaching with this things 6500k es and use 25 es nodes,while if i used life i would need literally double that amount to bring it on par,there is a problem with the es.

As you see i have bad ES items,but the es is too much.Try giving the equivelant 20-35 life,and you wouldnt reach that hp's.Not even 3/5th of them

So,in my opinion,es has to be dumbed down by a huge margin.It will still be relevant,but you will need a bigger investment achievieng it.

so...
first it was path of life nodes, ppl wanted more ES buffs etc.
now is path of ES and ppl want hp again?

"

spoc002 wrote:

so...
first it was path of life nodes, ppl wanted more ES buffs etc.
now is path of ES nodes and ppl want hp again?

Nah, I want both instead. Life needs help in many ways, like a bigger pool for ranger/duelist side and more passive point efficiency for marauder/templar side.

But people asking simply and only for ES to be nerfed seem to want neither and everyone to die left and right for no meaningful reason other than "X rare/boss just got the wrong mods, tough luck".

"

elwindakos wrote:

Es gone "Shit" also on open beta.

Still though,with half es given from items,es will be on par.

I'll give you an example.

When i am reaching

When i am reaching with this things 6500k es and use 25 es nodes,while if i used life i would need literally double that amount to bring it on par,there is a problem with the es.

As you see i have bad ES items,but the es is too much.Try giving the equivelant 20-35 life,and you wouldnt reach that hp's.Not even 3/5th of them

So,in my opinion,es has to be dumbed down by a huge margin.It will still be relevant,but you will need a bigger investment achievieng it.

Exactly, but I come from a different view point.

Life passive point efficiency is so terrible that they can't reach the obscene amount of dps required in order to do the "you have to be this tall" content.

If ES was made to have an equally bad efficiency, then how does that solve anything? It just puts ES into the same pool where you can't reach both the required amount of survivability and dps that the content demands.

Life needs nodes that are as good as the ES ones.

I think its fine. There should be content that challenges top builds with top gear, not everyone should be entitled to meet the requirements of that content, this is a loot based long term commitment game.

"

Apos91 wrote:

At least 1% leech feeding off that DPS with vaal pact OR using totems so that you can dedicate all your time avoiding damage instead

you dont need vaal pact. A small point I know and not meaning to take away from your larger point of the big stats needed to tackle deep endgame. Personally I think it should require the big stats as Ive said above, thats my take.

"

elwindakos wrote:

Es gone "Shit" also on open beta.

Still though,with half es given from items,es will be on par.

I'll give you an example.

When i am reaching

When i am reaching with this things 6500k es and use 25 es nodes,while if i used life i would need literally double that amount to bring it on par,there is a problem with the es.

As you see i have bad ES items,but the es is too much.Try giving the equivelant 20-35 life,and you wouldnt reach that hp's.Not even 3/5th of them

So,in my opinion,es has to be dumbed down by a huge margin.It will still be relevant,but you will need a bigger investment achievieng it.

6,500 es is terrible though, you can in no way compare 6,500 es from gear that otherwise has no defenses to 6,500 life. 6.5k es is about as effective as around 3k to 3.5k life. I could farm guardians all day with 6.5k life comfortably, I wouldnt even feel comfortable going past white tier maps with 6.5k es.

"

elwindakos wrote:

Es gone "Shit" also on open beta.

Still though,with half es given from items,es will be on par.

I'll give you an example.

When i am reaching

When i am reaching with this things 6500k es and use 25 es nodes,while if i used life i would need literally double that amount to bring it on par,there is a problem with the es.

As you see i have bad ES items,but the es is too much.Try giving the equivelant 20-35 life,and you wouldnt reach that hp's.Not even 3/5th of them

So,in my opinion,es has to be dumbed down by a huge margin.It will still be relevant,but you will need a bigger investment achievieng it.

That is so backwords thinking. ES is actually in a decent place, no need to get crazy with defense nodes, as it is not really needed, however the options are there if you want to go balls out crazy on defense.

Life Builds on the other hand alone require crazy chasing of nodes all over to get a decent benefit, without even factoring in defense like armour and evasion, which leaves very little for offense options, and is usually limited to what you can grab between life nodes. Its not that life builds are 100% non endgame viable, it is the amount of nodes and gear you HAVE to have to reach such a point its freaking crazy stupid.