Everyone dishes ES, but can we take into account the obscene requirements to be "end-game" viable?

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

I think its fine. There should be content that challenges top builds with top gear, not everyone should be entitled to meet the requirements of that content, this is a loot based long term commitment game.

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Apos91 wrote:

At least 1% leech feeding off that DPS with vaal pact OR using totems so that you can dedicate all your time avoiding damage instead

you dont need vaal pact. A small point I know and not meaning to take away from your larger point of the big stats needed to tackle deep endgame. Personally I think it should require the big stats as Ive said above, thats my take.

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elwindakos wrote:

Es gone "Shit" also on open beta.

Still though,with half es given from items,es will be on par.

I'll give you an example.

When i am reaching

When i am reaching with this things 6500k es and use 25 es nodes,while if i used life i would need literally double that amount to bring it on par,there is a problem with the es.

As you see i have bad ES items,but the es is too much.Try giving the equivelant 20-35 life,and you wouldnt reach that hp's.Not even 3/5th of them

So,in my opinion,es has to be dumbed down by a huge margin.It will still be relevant,but you will need a bigger investment achievieng it.

6,500 es is terrible though, you can in no way compare 6,500 es from gear that otherwise has no defenses to 6,500 life. 6.5k es is about as effective as around 3k to 3.5k life. I could farm guardians all day with 6.5k life comfortably, I wouldnt even feel comfortable going past white tier maps with 6.5k es.

Did uber lab yesterday,and is enough on certain builds.But as you see,this 6500 es....lkook at the items again...if i had the mediocre ones i would have 8k.

Also it eliminates the need for hp pots,which means more power in general

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MasterAxe wrote:

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elwindakos wrote:

Es gone "Shit" also on open beta.

Still though,with half es given from items,es will be on par.

I'll give you an example.

When i am reaching

When i am reaching with this things 6500k es and use 25 es nodes,while if i used life i would need literally double that amount to bring it on par,there is a problem with the es.

As you see i have bad ES items,but the es is too much.Try giving the equivelant 20-35 life,and you wouldnt reach that hp's.Not even 3/5th of them

So,in my opinion,es has to be dumbed down by a huge margin.It will still be relevant,but you will need a bigger investment achievieng it.

That is so backwords thinking. ES is actually in a decent place, no need to get crazy with defense nodes, as it is not really needed, however the options are there if you want to go balls out crazy on defense.

Life Builds on the other hand alone require crazy chasing of nodes all over to get a decent benefit, without even factoring in defense like armour and evasion, which leaves very little for offense options, and is usually limited to what you can grab between life nodes. Its not that life builds are 100% non endgame viable, it is the amount of nodes and gear you HAVE to have to reach such a point its freaking crazy stupid.

What backwards thinking you talking about?No,es needs the nerf treatment it recieved during open beta,and i dont talk only about ci.It needs nerf to at least 30% of its value right now.And not only that,make discipline give half of it.

Have in mind,i am es curenntly,i am full aware of what i am talking about

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Apos91 wrote:

If ES was made to have an equally bad efficiency, then how does that solve anything? It just puts ES into the same pool where you can't reach both the required amount of survivability and dps that the content demands.

you can reach the amount of defense and offense needed for the content with life doing any number of builds, you just have to make builds that work, theyre not going to balance the game around poorly made builds.

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elwindakos wrote:

Did uber lab yesterday,and is enough on certain builds.But as you see,this 6500 es....lkook at the items again...if i had the mediocre ones i would have 8k.

Also it eliminates the need for hp pots,which means more power in general

8k es is a mediocre amount of defense, you could get it with mediocre items, yeah sure. Its probably comparable to a build with 4.5k life and 8k armour or evasion which would take the same level of gear.

I think es would be stronger if it had pots that refilled your es.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

8k es is a mediocre amount of defense, you could get it with mediocre items, yeah sure. Its probably comparable to a build with 4.5k life and 8k armour or evasion which would take the same level of gear.

I think es would be stronger if it had pots that refilled your es.

Correction: It's more like 4.5k life and 35k armour against physical hits and 8k life against elemental hits or degen.

Took me three tries to figure out what he meant by "dishes".

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

8k es is a mediocre amount of defense, you could get it with mediocre items, yeah sure. Its probably comparable to a build with 4.5k life and 8k armour or evasion which would take the same level of gear.

I think es would be stronger if it had pots that refilled your es.

Damn snorkle,you want so much not to get Es nerfed?Are you delusional?Or you think you cant have a good 8k armour and 10kes?The amount i have is not even with a shield!In a build not optimised for purely ES!!I mean....wth...

Even your suggestion on es pots...Whats the life excuse to exist then?And what about the hybrid builds that can achieve more hp/es pool...

Lets talk...but not from our asses...please.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

Took me three tries to figure out what he meant by "dishes".

Haha,then you will have two more pages reading absurdity :)

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

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Apos91 wrote:

If ES was made to have an equally bad efficiency, then how does that solve anything? It just puts ES into the same pool where you can't reach both the required amount of survivability and dps that the content demands.

you can reach the amount of defense and offense needed for the content with life doing any number of builds, you just have to make builds that work, theyre not going to balance the game around poorly made builds.

How many of them do not abuse a strong mechanic coming from a unique like Splinker and how many skill gems are viable through methods like this?

Also, I don't consider totem builds to be a valid example of viable life builds. I'd rather they stayed completely out of the discussion. How does that compare to the skill gem viability in the shadow/ranger side?

I never said that you can't do it. In fact, the only person with a build that can literally facetank shaper in my guild is a life based berserker. That doesn't make life any better.

And poorly made builds will always exist. They exist for ES as well. So don't worry, I don't advocate or hope to take that away from the game. I also consider it a main component of learning how to build and it's a main part of the passive tree feature. Making life more efficient doesn't change that. You can be inefficient for a lot of points on the ES side as well if you don't manage your build properly.

And to add something else to the discussion, there's also a lot of utilities that life doesn't have available to them.

Don't know about anyone else, but I grow really tired of playing life builds when I can have these as CI:


A life equivalent would be great. Not having to roll a bleed flask allows for a slot for something much more useful like a Taste of Hate or a Wise Oak.

ES pool is a lot higher then life pool. But it is much easier for life builds to get armour/evasion or even some ES on top.
The problem isn't that ES has much higher values the life builds, but that armour and evasion are shit.

If amour also worked for elemental hits, and evasion also worked for spells, life would be on par with ES. You could go high pool and zero other defenses ES sponge, or damage mitigation tank with life. Nerfing ES without touching armour/evasion will only reduce build diversity and make higher level content doable with only a fraction of builds.

But really, to fix life stupidly easy, we could just get %life crafts on rings, like other defenses. That would help a lot.