Don't Put New Legacy League Zana Crafts In Permanent Leagues 2.6.

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sofocle10000 wrote:

Either way you look at it, they messed up ignoring a part of their player base

Speaking of which, have they made any comment at all on how and why so far?

Sure, maybe it's part of some big change in 3.0 they can't talk about yet, but they could have at least said something, indended - for testing purposes - bug - technically impossible? Anything at all would mean a lot, no matter how vague it has to be.

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raics wrote:

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sofocle10000 wrote:

Either way you look at it, they messed up ignoring a part of their player base

Speaking of which, have they made any comment at all on how and why so far?

Sure, maybe it's part of some big change in 3.0 they can't talk about yet, but they could have at least said something, indended - for testing purposes - bug - technically impossible? Anything at all would mean a lot, no matter how vague it has to be.

No, and not for the lack of asking for a response. They are wholly aware of the question.

Chris even answered a related question in the recent Dev Q&A but did not follow on with the answer to this particular question. Even though I asked it in the same submission thread, as well as in several others, just as have many other people on here and on reddit.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

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Chris wrote:

The plan varies from mechanic to mechanic. Legacy isn't meant to say goodbye to them, but provides a great opportunity to play with a lot of craziness happening simultaneously. The Zana changes are because we can't run regular Zana mods at the same time as Leaguestones, and to provide an alternate experience for people to make their maps more difficult and rewarding. We haven't decided about the role of Leaguestones in the future of Path of Exile.

So, why not answer this...

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TheAnuhart wrote:

Why did you pull that Zana trick with permanent leagues in 2.6?

Easier to just not answer than to say 'we did it to fuck over permanent league players'?

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raics wrote:

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sofocle10000 wrote:

Either way you look at it, they messed up ignoring a part of their player base

Speaking of which, have they made any comment at all on how and why so far?

Sure, maybe it's part of some big change in 3.0 they can't talk about yet, but they could have at least said something, indended - for testing purposes - bug - technically impossible? Anything at all would mean a lot, no matter how vague it has to be.

The first post of the thread has all their official response I guess, although TheAnuhart should know better.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

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Bex_GGG wrote:

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TheAnuhart wrote:

Bex, can you post the Zana mods for 2.6 in permanent leagues, you only have the ones for Legacy.

The ones listed in the patch notes are the same for Legacy and Standard.

What?


But permanent leagues don't have leaguestones.

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Because Legacy returns many previous challenge leagues, we're trying out a different approach to Zana mods for the next three months.

I even enticed Chris to respond in a reddit thread with some tongue in cheek trickery.

He took the bait, but still refused to actually respond to this question.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/5x6el1/photo_of_ggg_servers_being_blessed_before_26/defnr9c/?context=3

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raics wrote:

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sofocle10000 wrote:

Either way you look at it, they messed up ignoring a part of their player base

Speaking of which, have they made any comment at all on how and why so far?

Sure, maybe it's part of some big change in 3.0 they can't talk about yet, but they could have at least said something, indended - for testing purposes - bug - technically impossible? Anything at all would mean a lot, no matter how vague it has to be.

Pretty sure GGG wants standard dead at this point. Shit they already force probably, close to 25% of standard players into Temp leagues already for new content. Leveling and regearing characters i already own league after league is extremely annoying for me.

I dont play temporary leagues because i want to, i play them because i have to if i want new content that isnt a major expansion. New content barely keeps me in too, right now with how unenjoyable melee is to play i have little reason to stick around period, the only reason i put up with it for now is for Challenge MTX that i want.

League stones are probably going to become a permanent mechanic if you ask me. I like it alot more than paying for the league mods to be honest, though the Zana mods now are equally unfun and bad for the most part.

For me 3.0 is going to be a big definer if i keep playing or not. After being promised significant melee changes multiple times, all of them being completely arbitrary and at the same time completely neutralized and even indirectly nerfed via new map mods, i find it very difficult to keep playing this game.

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sofocle10000 wrote:

goetzjam please read again the 3 ex league mod paragraph, and understand that GGG at least had, if not still has, the possibility to have DIFFERENT league mods on the current league and Standard.

We actually have a problem with GGG's stance regarding offering answers concerning the sudden change of Zana mods in Standard. If they @#$% up, they could have just said so, while having the PR crap that they just "needed feedback" on the new mods from all the player base.

If they don't care enough for the Standard players that actually use Zana mods, as the new leaguestone system will replace the old Zana mods (with or without the addition of ancient reliquary keys), they could have just announced openly that starting from 3.0, we'll get the opportunity to experience all the content for further playthroughs with the addition of old league mechanics from up to x leaguestones (as the "New Game +")...

Either way you look at it, they messed up ignoring a part of their player base, that enjoyed to chance specific uniques, or just wanted to pump up the challenge dial by adding one old league mechanic.

That is inexcusable, as they hadn't even provided a formal official answer, and it was not that hard to do. Their lack of transparency at times is just mind boggling, and due to that attitude I will carefully consider to support them further with 3.0...

I think someone is mis-remembering what was possible. At no time do I think GGG offered a different set of zana mods then ones offered in the league. The specific example given was what torment? Zana 8 had that available in the torment league itself.

Zana mods are determined by core game changes, not by what needs standard has. Its always been the case.



Why would they announce so soon that 3.0 will have leaguestones, when they don't have enough valid information about the mechanics and how it affects gameplay. Do I think they would have spent a significant amount of time reworking old league uniques just to discard the system, no.


Ignoring 20% of the playerbase (at most) is in this case allowing them to dedicate that time to 3.0, which affects everyone. Almost all uniques that have a value in terms of chancing have div cards for them too, as the saying goes there are many ways to skin the cat or something like that.


They don't owe OP or you anything in terms of a formal answer. You want a formal answer message Bex or Chris if it means that much to you, but keep in mind those people fielding questions about zana mods, means that is less time focus and spent on making 3.0 the best it can be.


You claim GGG lacked transparency, but the patch notes were released on Wed and it was clear they didn't want zana mods to stack with league mechanics in the way they were previously setup. Saying its a lack of transparency is not the right phrasing at all.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

Chris even answered a related question in the recent Dev Q&A but did not follow on with the answer to this particular question. Even though I asked it in the same submission thread, as well as in several others, just as have many other people on here and on reddit.

Right, looks like classic evasion, I take it we should stop hoping for an official answer.

Maybe the actual reason is so dumb he's embarrassed to say it :)
If you think about it, what would be the reason for secrecy? It's unlikely people would get more offended than they are right now, I mean, what are the possible answers?

a) We can't do it.
Backlash: Ok, if you can't - you can't, some would probably call bullshit but we don't have any solid proof and nothing actually surprises me anymore about their moonshine engine (actually might be a good name if they ever think of selling it).

b) It takes extra time and our team that works on that is too busy with 3.0
Backlash: There might not be any here, we get all giddy when 3.0 is mentioned.

c) We can't say anything in detail because it's tied to larger changes in 3.0, it's necessary for that and will improve perma leagues in the long run.
Backlash: See b.

d) We don't want to do it because we want feedback from perma players too
Backlash: A fuck you from a decent part of perma community, they go on hiatus until 3.0.

e) We don't want to do it because we want more people to play Lego
Backlash: A big fuck you from a larger part of perma community, they go on hiatus until 3.0 or quit altogether. //note: this one is kinda unlikely, it's really an asshole move

Did I miss anything?

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

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raics wrote:

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sofocle10000 wrote:

Either way you look at it, they messed up ignoring a part of their player base

Speaking of which, have they made any comment at all on how and why so far?

Sure, maybe it's part of some big change in 3.0 they can't talk about yet, but they could have at least said something, indended - for testing purposes - bug - technically impossible? Anything at all would mean a lot, no matter how vague it has to be.

Pretty sure GGG wants standard dead at this point. Shit they already force probably, close to 25% of standard players into Temp leagues already for new content. Leveling and regearing characters i already own league after league is extremely annoying for me.

I'm thinking it would sooner be something about c, there's too much people playing right now and the market becomes flooded way too soon so they have to start splitting the community into normal league, ssf and perma. I assume they plan on making perma leagues more attractive by providing unique features, shutting them down makes no sense to me.

Or I'm giving them too much of a benefit of doubt.

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raics wrote:

I'm thinking it would sooner be something about c, there's too much people playing right now and the market becomes flooded way too soon so they have to start splitting the community into normal league, ssf and perma. I assume they plan on making perma leagues more attractive by providing unique features, shutting them down makes no sense to me.

Or I'm giving them too much of a benefit of doubt.

They contradict what they want alot that its hard to tell.

For example, Zana change is a complete fuck you to perma players, basically telling them to come play League. But then at the same time they very clearly weighted the ARK appropriately as to not affect standard or hardcore.

Theres also examples too with the drop rates. They introduced the 4x drop rate in perandus i think ? On top of having a league with tons of free stuff they increased the drop rate, it made no sense. That clearly affected the core game and permanent leagues though and it was practically immediately changed back.

I dont think they can really make permanent leagues more appealing without them implementing leagues in permanent leagues separate from the current leagues. The discrepancy in new content, Challenge MTX and league exclusive content is just too great. On top of all of that the fresh economy makes it very easy to become rich, fast, making that all the more currency to bring back into perm leagues. Too many good incentives.

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raics wrote:

e) We don't want to do it because we want more people to play Lego
Backlash: A big fuck you from a larger part of perma community, they go on hiatus until 3.0 or quit altogether. //note: this one is kinda unlikely, it's really an asshole move

Did I miss anything?

It's undoubtedly 'e', I'd say. But yes you did miss something which I'd put down as 'e+'.

Not only do they want people to play leagues but they know that people often play leagues because of bribe/deprive but then return to Standard a few weeks into the league.

Why is that a problem this time around? Why would they want to make Standard unappealing for the league exodus players?

Simple answer. 3.0 beta which will have a buy in option.