Pure Zombie Necromancer build?

Yeah I usually use a femur's myself but the lag in breach was just too much, I'm hoping they fix it to work properly at some point as I genuinely like the unique but its just too rippy to be used on HC

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Draegnarrr wrote:

Yeah I usually use a femur's myself but the lag in breach was just too much, I'm hoping they fix it to work properly at some point as I genuinely like the unique but its just too rippy to be used on HC

the lag is only awful if you happen to constantly resummon minions (ie srs AW or skeletons)

if you stay away from those minions you actually get almost no lag. which is what i do. i only have about 50 free mana anyway.

this is why i like zombie builds . good ones are built such that you can plan on not having to resummon them often. this means you can spend more of your mana pool on auras and completely neglect your mana since realistically the most expensive skill you should be casting is .. a zero link offering

let's say what c4lc00l4t!0nz provide...

when we assume
20/20 gems (let's say 21 RZ in fermurs and lvl 4 empower which is probably pretty expensive)
100% hit and
15% enemy chaos res (which is for uber atziri) and
-60% curse effectiveness for vulnerability + temporal chains
and all taken into the sheet, double checked your gear and tree, and
the "hidden" (from the wiki RZ article) -33% less dmg but +33% attack speed and
10 zombies and
spirit offering (btw flesh offering with 30% inc attack speed gives more damage) and
+ roar + atziris promise + sulphur flask + sins rebirth

you're at 1,7M DPS (Hits+Poison) or 2,9M Dmg (Hits+Poison with full duration with 1 second attacking)


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ok now...
same setup... (excel is the best program ever)


without femurs (-2 RZ level): 82% original damage or DPS (wow didnt expected so much)
-50% zombie quantity: 41%
+90% more physical damage via new Mont Grasp: 58%

that's definetly..... a huge loss of damage! problem is that physical damage is not scaling poison and therefore the 90% more physical damage is not even close to compensate 50% reduced zombies

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with united in dream off hand we can drop poison gem (for faster attacks) and get at least 30% minion dmg. also flesh offering instead of spirit offering.
this will lead to: 88% original damage

so at the moment we loose 12% dmg of your setup to gain survivability of the zombies... question if it's worth it?

peace

there is a slight error in your calculation.


the number of zombies really only effect the initial hit. so more or less of them wont have an effect on double dipping in the slightest


you can view montreguls grasps 50% less zombies almost as zombies do 50% less melee physical damage . which is "almost" countered by the 90% more physical damage mod


i say almost because if i were to convert to montre from queens or femurs i would not go from 11 to 6 or 10 to 5

i would probably go from 11 to 4 and 10 to 4 because my chest is not a 6l and the only on hand 6l i have is skin of the loyal.


so to give you better numbers montre is 60% less physical damage and 90% more physical damage


if the old montre was 4 zombies fro about 5 zombies worth of dps . the new montre is about 4 zombies for about 7.5 zombies worth of dps

ok im unsure about my interpretation but in the calculation i have it like this:

initial hit * attacks per second * number of zombies = Hit DPS

to get poison you simply go

Hit DPS * 8% * poison scaling = Poison DPS


50% less zombies is NOT equal to 50% less melee physical damage because the initial hit of the zombies is also influenced by mods like increased minion damage, which is also "lost by losing a zombie".

the math is clear: 50% reduced zombie quantitity = 50% less damage
we gain on the other hand 90% more physical damage and a 50% double dipping mod is more worth than a 90% physical...



BTW: i made really a mistake (which is rly dumb), a different tho. but to correct myself

with montreguls grasp it's not 58%, it's 72% original damage

aaand TA-DA with united in dream we are at 111% so 11% damage gain by dual wielding grasp+UID with faster attacks gem and flesh offering! (this needs a lvl 4 empower to)

with lvl 3 empower and lvl 20 raise zombie (much more realistic scenario) we're at: 91%. that'S still good

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airparisderjesus wrote:

ok im unsure about my interpretation but in the calculation i have it like this:

initial hit * attacks per second * number of zombies = Hit DPS

to get poison you simply go

Hit DPS * 8% * poison scaling = Poison DPS


50% less zombies is NOT equal to 50% less melee physical damage because the initial hit of the zombies is also influenced by mods like increased minion damage, which is also "lost by losing a zombie".

the math is clear: 50% reduced zombie quantitity = 50% less damage
we gain on the other hand 90% more physical damage and a 50% double dipping mod is more worth than a 90% physical...

50% less zombie is 50% less hits (remember the base hit of a zombie is 100% physical damage) , not 50% less damage this is a very dangerous difference

50% less hits does not double dip, 50% less damage does double dip so it is important to state it clearly


the amount of poison damage you do per zombie will not change with the number of zombies you have

so if you have 1 normal zombie and you hit once than you poison for 1 hit
if you have 1 montre zombie your initial base physical hit is 90% larger but it is still that 1 hit.

less zombies =/= less minion damage.

if montre had 100% more melee physical then 4 montre zombies would be equal to 8 non montre zombies assuming no other changes in damage values

we are halving the number but almost doubling the base damage. so it evens out

so you suggest instead of making (zombie number)/2 i simply multiply with (1+90%)*(1-50%) for the physical damage portion?

kk i tested it, and now we deal around 6% more damage than before. not a huge difference but now it's correct

best damage number is now: 1,83M DPS (dual wielding with united in dream [+faster attacks] and grasp, 5 zombies)

compared to your setup with 10 zombies: 1,89M DPS

a better way to look at is is use the 90% more physical damage of the montre on the base zombie dps and then use the same calculations you do for the normal build and then replace the 10 zombies with probably 4

as i doubt i would get to 5 this is because switching out the montre changes everything

unless i find a mind blowing undyingflesh talisman in legacy

let me show what i would do for a montre setup*




the montre set up would also probably lose a curse since i would no longer have a 5l to place it in

and since i dont have a good undyingflesh talisman for this .. well this maybe with bones could get me to 5

just had an interesting throught if the two zombie jewels will make zombies always use an >AOE< attack slam

does that mean conc effect and incaoe are now on the table as gem options? oh boy that is going to change damage figures substantially

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

just had an interesting throught if the two zombie jewels will make zombies always use an >AOE< attack slam

does that mean conc effect and incaoe are now on the table as gem options? oh boy that is going to change damage figures substantially

That will be a matter of testing how often it can be used.
Don't forget BaseCooldown / (1+RecoverySpeed).
That doesn't bring the cooldown to zero usually, like Stone Golem's slam.