Donald Trump and US politics

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Elynole wrote:

What would you consider a war? Because I feel this number is extremely misguided - if single military operations are considered a war to you, then fine - say that. But all out wars? No.

when you bomb another country and start military activities there to kill people it's a war.... saying it isn't is just making a semantic debate while people die. Currently the USA is at war with about 7 countries and this is Obama's legacy.

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diablofdb wrote:

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Elynole wrote:

What would you consider a war? Because I feel this number is extremely misguided - if single military operations are considered a war to you, then fine - say that. But all out wars? No.

when you bomb another country and start military activities there to kill people it's a war.... saying it isn't is just making a semantic debate while people die. Currently the USA is at war with about 7 countries and this is Obama's legacy.

Then we will call them wars - of which, were inherited by Obama in which Bush had operations in a majority of the countries Obama ran operations in.

So no, by your definition Obama didn't **start** 7 wars. He inherited most of them. The same by which I can't say Trump started these wars, merely inherited them and continued operations.

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Elynole wrote:

Then we will call them wars - of which, were inherited by Obama in which Bush had operations in a majority of the countries Obama ran operations in.

So no, by your definition Obama didn't **start** 7 wars. He inherited most of them. The same by which I can't say Trump started these wars, merely inherited them and continued operations.

the only ones Bush started are Iraq and Afghanistan.... and Obama promised to end them. Not only he continued those two wars for 8 more years, but he started 5 other all by himself. We can call that a major fail.

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diablofdb wrote:

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Elynole wrote:

Then we will call them wars - of which, were inherited by Obama in which Bush had operations in a majority of the countries Obama ran operations in.

So no, by your definition Obama didn't **start** 7 wars. He inherited most of them. The same by which I can't say Trump started these wars, merely inherited them and continued operations.

the only ones Bush started are Iraq and Afghanistan.... and Obama promised to end them. Not only he continued those two wars for 8 more years, but he started 5 other all by himself. We can call that a major fail.

The only Afghanistan and Iraq thing is not true. Bush conducted air strikes in multiple other middle eastern countries during his presidency and had military operations in many more.

That's the thing - you defined war as any conflict between the U.S. and another nation, my definition would have only defined Iraq and Afghanistan as a war zone - but you wanted the definition otherwise.

Bush ran air strikes in other countries besides Afghanistan and Iraq - if you're going to stick to your definition then perhaps you need to research your history of military conflict in the Middle East.

Syria is a direct result to Irak destabilization created by Bush tho .
I would say the world was a better palce with Sadam around (sadly


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/chirac-makes-his-case-on-iraq/
Sad for once French were right

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Head_Less wrote:

meanwhile

Former President Barack Obama, less than 100 days out of office, has agreed to speak at a Wall Street conference run by Cantor Fitzgerald LP, senior people at the firm confirm to FOX Business. His speaking fee will be $400,000, which is nearly twice as much as Hillary Clinton, his secretary of state, and the 2016 Democratic Party candidate, charged private businesses for such events.

I suppose it's not a crime right? After all he is smarter than that.

Now, one may argue that this is unethical, and it's a fair point, but if we are going to criticize the ethics of the former President of the US we better not forget to hold the current President to the same standards or else we might end up looking hypocritical.

But if there will be ever a law that prohibits presidents from "making money out of their presidency", how would it work? I mean, he did sign a huge contract to write a book as soon as he left the office, would that be also considered unethical? I honestly don't think so, and I think it would be unfair to ask him to hide under a rock saying that he can't make money using the popularity he got by being President. I mean, he is out now, just a citizen again, right?

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Elynole wrote:

The only Afghanistan and Iraq thing is not true. Bush conducted air strikes in multiple other middle eastern countries during his presidency and had military operations in many more.

That's the thing - you defined war as any conflict between the U.S. and another nation, my definition would have only defined Iraq and Afghanistan as a war zone - but you wanted the definition otherwise.

Bush ran air strikes in other countries besides Afghanistan and Iraq - if you're going to stick to your definition then perhaps you need to research your history of military conflict in the Middle East.

He conducted war against a total of 4 countries and ended war in two of these, the only wars that remained at the end of his mandate were afghanistan and Iraq. Obama not only continued and never ended these two wars he PROMISED to end... but he started many more... perhaps you need to research your history of military conflict in the Middle East little kid.


countries bombed by Bush: Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan and Somalia.

countries bombed by Obama: Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, Libya and Syria.

and you can add many other small conflict for Obama :3

"This is more work than my previous life...I thought it would be easier."

-Donald Trump

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sinfoniantuba11 wrote:

"This is more work than my previous life...I thought it would be easier."

-Donald Trump

I like this one too

"I will end the wars in Asghanistan and Iraq if you elect me"

-Barrack Obama

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diablofdb wrote:

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Elynole wrote:

The only Afghanistan and Iraq thing is not true. Bush conducted air strikes in multiple other middle eastern countries during his presidency and had military operations in many more.

That's the thing - you defined war as any conflict between the U.S. and another nation, my definition would have only defined Iraq and Afghanistan as a war zone - but you wanted the definition otherwise.

Bush ran air strikes in other countries besides Afghanistan and Iraq - if you're going to stick to your definition then perhaps you need to research your history of military conflict in the Middle East.

He conducted war against a total of 4 countries and ended war in two of these, the only wars that remained at the end of his mandate were afghanistan and Iraq. Obama not only continued and never ended these two wars he PROMISED to end... but he started many more... perhaps you need to research your history of military conflict in the Middle East little kid.


countries bombed by Bush: Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan and Somalia.

countries bombed by Obama: Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, Libya and Syria.

and you can add many other small conflict for Obama :3

Again, I would pose a defining question of what do you consider "ending" a conflict?

The point I'm trying to make is this: Trump inherited instability in the Middle East due to the Obama-era presidency not being able to bring about peace, Obama inherited instability in the Middle East due to the Bush-era presidency not being able to bring about peace. This is cyclical since Post-WWII Brits putting their filthy fingers in the Middle East and redrawing country lines while setting up government, further exploited by the US during the Cold War and Iraq-Iran conflicts, and continues to this day.

My beef is your choice of wording and prejudice of Obama "starting" wars - this is a statement thrown around without regards for the history of the region. The modern conflicts in the Middle East have been going on for decades, and can't really be attributed to any one President - or country for that matter. Destabilization of the region happened through Western interests in trying to play strings with government and cultures they had no idea about.

For the record, it's of my opinion that Obama shouldn't have ended the war in Iraq - at least not how it was handled. I was in Mosul during the withdrawal, my unit was in charge of winding down the two FOBs we had there and tearing them down. Even before we left, we could feel a shift of uneasiness with the region - knowing that as soon as we pulled out all hell was going to break loose. Keeping a presence there, like we've done in Germany, Korea, Japan, Vietnam, etc. would have been the more smart decision I feel in the short term - instead we pulled out with haste and the IS waltzed right in and set up shop.