Donald Trump and US politics

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diablofdb wrote:

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sarahaustin wrote:

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pneuma wrote:

Jesus christ, take it to PMs or something.

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Re:Immigration, I'll just say again that conflating legal immigration with illegal immigration is extraordinarily dishonest.

Of course we want immigrants. The country is made by and of them.

We want people to understand our laws and our freedoms first, and we want them to pay taxes -- to become truly naturalized. Immigration is more than just living somewhere. I almost wish we had the crazy Swiss system of requiring all your neighbors to vote on your naturalization. Peer pressure is how culture is made and maintained, after all.

Um, in case you didnt know, americans came from europe and are violent settlers who killed the natives. You cant say "illegal immigration is bad" without looking stupid because the natives should be given their land back and run the country, not some fat ugly white guy who gets rich by scamming people.

what happened 400 years ago is irrelevant.....

Tell that to the Jewish. Oh wait, they just claimed ownership of land that they were exiled from waaaay more than 400 years ago.

And no, I'm not antisemitic. But the hypocrisy of the US supporting the Jews while still persecuting native American Indians, who would be denied a far greater claim than the Jews have, is truly something.

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diablofdb wrote:

KKK was a part of the democrats.... you're really bad at history aren't you?

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diablofdb wrote:

what happened 400 years ago is irrelevant.....

That's hilarious.

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soneka101 wrote:

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diablofdb wrote:

KKK was a part of the democrats.... you're really bad at history aren't you?

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diablofdb wrote:

what happened 400 years ago is irrelevant.....

That's hilarious.

Those are two things I've said for two different scenario do not mix everything.


Making acusations such as you guys did earlier while the historical facts are against you... is stupid.


And meanwhile really thinking that things that happened 400 years ago is relevant to what's happening right now is stupid.... How the world was back then is completely different, everything was ruled by empires and aristocrates. Things are differents now if you think you can compare our situation or even blame us for what happened 400 years ago you are stupid... no one is alive from that periods and the rules are different.


If you cannot understand the subtility of this well... not my problem.

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pneuma wrote:

Rights without defense aren't meaningful. I can claim to own the Moon, but with no strength to back that claim up, it's uncertain if it's true or not.

Everyone knows the USA owns the Moon. So does that mean Donald Trump currently owns the Moon? Does he rent the Moon? Is he in control of Moon based operations? Is Donald Trump the Guardian of the Galaxy?

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diablofdb wrote:

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soneka101 wrote:

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diablofdb wrote:

KKK was a part of the democrats.... you're really bad at history aren't you?

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diablofdb wrote:

what happened 400 years ago is irrelevant.....

That's hilarious.

Those are two things I've said for two different scenario do not mix everything.


Making acusations such as you guys did earlier while the historical facts are against you... is stupid.


And meanwhile really thinking that things that happened 400 years ago is relevant to what's happening right now is stupid.... How the world was back then is completely different, everything was ruled by empires and aristocrates. Things are differents now if you think you can compare our situation or even blame us for what happened 400 years ago you are stupid... no one is alive from that periods and the rules are different.


If you cannot understand the subtility of this well... not my problem.

Bringing up that the KKK was founded by democrats IS IRRELEVANT when talking about racism, since their political affiliation is less important to them than their core beliefs of racial superiority, they happened to be founded by democrats, nowadays they happen to support Trump and other GOP politicians, and they might keep changing in the future, favoring those they believe will forward policies that align with their ideology.

But anyone would assume that you brought it up because you consider history important(e.g."you're really bad at history aren't you?") except that just a few posts latter you dismissed history as if it's nothing important.

So I guess that's it? History is only important when it can be used as talking point?

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鬼殺し wrote:

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

How soon people forget.

Was there ever a time where we didn't naturalize immigrants?

When the huddled masses came in, we funneled them through Ellis Island. We required their name, required them to swear an oath to the Constitution and abide by our laws, to pay taxes, and then to wait for 2 years (later 5 years, then 7 years).

At no point, ever, has immigration been a free-for-all. There's a difference between forgetting something and making it up out of whole cloth. And also between poetry and law.

It'd be nice to get back to 2 years. Or maybe even less. One of the major reasons why there's so many illegal immigrants is that the red tape for legal immigration is Kafkaesque in its absurdity. All that bureaucracy serves almost no one; those who process all the applications get a salary, and are the only beneficiaries I can see. Making immigrant vetting ever-more convoluted is conservative virtue-signaling.

Being staunchly against illegal immigration should mean being very much for common-sense, efficient, merit-based legal immigration.

Around the turn of the 20th Century, my grandparents came from Eastern Europe to the US through Ellis Island (y'know, the place with the statue that someone thought would be improved with a piece of pretty poetry). They had to pass a battery of examinations, medical and moral, before being allowed entry into their new homeland.

Those ancestors of mine cherished their new nation, their new nationality. They studied English (my uncle kept those old study notebooks, so he could use them to learn the mother tongue, not used in their home), worked hard, and assimilated. They didn't wave their old flag, antagonize their new neighbors, or take up criminality as a culturally-protected pastime. My people didn't come looking for handouts and freebies; they would've scoffed at the sorts of "immigrants" swarming our undefended borders, as well as at those who supported the "rights" of those criminal aliens to enter our country in violation of our laws.

So don't compare those "immigrants," whose first act upon arrival is to flout our laws, with my ancestors, and those who came to America, as they did, with high hopes and aspirations to become a PART of the culture, and not to supplant it with their own ways (waving foreign flags), and their own languages ("para Espanol, oprima el dos").

And about that poem? It was an art project, not a posting of US policy, any more than the poem about the US Mail carrier:

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The words "Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds" - while by no means an official creed or motto of the United States Postal Service - have long been associated with the American postman. The motto is inscribed on New York's James Farley Post Office, but it has no official status.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Postal_Service_creed

So let's not elevate a romanticized idealization of "immigrants" to a basis for criticizing those who want immigration law to be enforced. It's just pretty words. The law is what counts. ='[.]'=

When my grandfather came here from Afghanistan he had to speak English, educated (he was a civil engineer) and have place to stay. Took him like 2 years to get residency. Now it's a free for all. Cheap-labor-democrats love unlimited immigrant. Prefer liabilities even to put them on welfare plantation for votes.

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Raycheetah wrote:

So don't compare those "immigrants," whose first act upon arrival is to flout our laws, with my ancestors, and those who came to America, as they did, with high hopes and aspirations to become a PART of the culture, and not to supplant it with their own ways (waving foreign flags), and their own languages ("para Espanol, oprima el dos").

But isn't that exactly what Bannon, Miller and Trump are doing?