Donald Trump and US politics

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Vhlad wrote:

That shooter bias study from University of Illinois is garbage.

The images last 1 second, maybe less. You press J to shoot or F to holster. It cycles between white or black people with various backgrounds in various positions holding various things.

The picture quality is so poor and zoomed out I can't even tell if people are armed in a second. So it's basically just a test of fear conditioning.

That's the point. To be forced to make a snap judgement given less-than-ideal circumstances, and see how people react.

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Which means the results will be completely dependent on test subjects. The sample size wasn't large and was comprised of mainly white participants.

If the university gave the test to only black people, more white people would be shot. It's just a fear conditioning response (in less than 1 second you're instinctually more likely to shoot something that looks different than you).

It's evidence of bias (irrelevant bias imo), not evidence of racism or "pervasive systemic racism"

Um... I disagree. This specific kind of bias may be a major contributing factor to the way we keep ending up with massive disparities in police shootings. It's subconscious, it's not active, you may not even be aware of it, but it is definitely a matter of racism. How is it not a matter of racism when you have a subconscious fear response when faced with a black man? If we're conditioned to see black people as threats, this causes serious problems. This is what we mean when we talk about subconscious or unconscious bias. You hold prejudices and beliefs you may not be actively aware of, and they influence your behavior. The same is true for all of us, myself included. The trick is to recognize them, and actively work against them.

Hey Head_Less, have you looked into things like the arrest statistics for marijuana (blacks get arrested far more often, despite blacks and whites using weed at about the same rate) or the reason they overturned Stop and Frisk in NYC (the results of this allegedly non-racial program were quite telling)?

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TheAnuhart wrote:

^ I'll have to try to find a link, but iirc, a similar simulation was done by police and even black policemen shot blacks more than whites.

And yet more white ppl are killed by cops then black ppl
At first you would think well yes there are many more white ppl so makes sense yes? well no, black ppl commit about half the crime so this whole narrative of cops being racist simply isnt true(although no doubt there are individual cases and cops where race was an issue).

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jackof8lades wrote:

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TheAnuhart wrote:

^ I'll have to try to find a link, but iirc, a similar simulation was done by police and even black policemen shot blacks more than whites.

And yet more white ppl are killed by cops then black ppl
At first you would think well yes there are many more white ppl so makes sense yes? well no black ppl commit about half the crime so this whole narrative of cops being racist simply isnt true(although no doubt there are individual cases and cops where race was an issue).

Even with the effects of systemic racism actually leading to more crime by minorities, your statement about blacks committing about 50% of crime is laughably incorrect.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

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jackof8lades wrote:

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TheAnuhart wrote:

^ I'll have to try to find a link, but iirc, a similar simulation was done by police and even black policemen shot blacks more than whites.

And yet more white ppl are killed by cops then black ppl
At first you would think well yes there are many more white ppl so makes sense yes? well no black ppl commit about half the crime so this whole narrative of cops being racist simply isnt true(although no doubt there are individual cases and cops where race was an issue).

Even with the effects of systemic racism actually leading to more crime by minorities, your statement about blacks committing about 50% of crime is laughably incorrect.

Should have been violent crimes i stand corrected(also in some cities its more then 75% of all murders that are commitd by black ppl). And systemic racism leading to more crimes by minorities?
Fucking hilarious not only do they commit more crimes now its even white ppl's fault they commit these crimes in the first place.

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jackof8lades wrote:

Should have been violent crimes i stand corrected. And systemic racism leading to more crimes by minorities?
Fucking hilarious not only do they commit more crimes now its even white ppl's fault they commit these crimes in the first place.

Removing agency from minorities is classic leftist racism.

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jackof8lades wrote:

Should have been violent crimes i stand corrected(also in some cities its more then 75% of all murders that are commitd by black ppl).

Gonna need citations.

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And systemic racism leading to more crimes by minorities?

More crimes by and bias policing of, yes.

I mean, regardless of unconscious bias in handling crime, there's a definite link to systemic racism in the Flint water crisis, there's a definite link to lead and crime. That's just one individual link between systemic racism and crime in minorities. Any individual being a racist or not is completely irrelevant in this case.

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Fucking hilarious not only do they commit more crimes now its even white ppl's fault they commit these crimes in the first place.

What a strange thing to say. That's creeping very close to uncomfortable.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

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jackof8lades wrote:

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Fucking hilarious not only do they commit more crimes now its even white ppl's fault they commit these crimes in the first place.

What a strange thing to say. That's creeping very close to uncomfortable.

I say? you are the one blaming white ppl for the crimes commited by minorities not me i just find this level of reality denying hilarious.

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

Hey Head_Less, have you looked into things like the arrest statistics for marijuana (blacks get arrested far more often, despite blacks and whites using weed at about the same rate) or the reason they overturned Stop and Frisk in NYC (the results of this allegedly non-racial program were quite telling)?

However, murder/physical attacks/burglary can t be put into over zealous policemen. When black men commit 2-3 time higher murders than any other "race", you can t invent a murder just to fulfill a racist agenda.

Ghetto culture is a lot to blame.

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

Um... I disagree. This specific kind of bias may be a major contributing factor to the way we keep ending up with massive disparities in police shootings. It's subconscious, it's not active, you may not even be aware of it, but it is definitely a matter of racism. How is it not a matter of racism when you have a subconscious fear response when faced with a black man? If we're conditioned to see black people as threats, this causes serious problems. This is what we mean when we talk about subconscious or unconscious bias. You hold prejudices and beliefs you may not be actively aware of, and they influence your behavior. The same is true for all of us, myself included. The trick is to recognize them, and actively work against them.

It's not racism. It's bias. There's a difference.

And it's not subconscious fear of a black man. It's a fear conditioning response to something that looks different than you. Meaning if they replaced the black man with a Japanese person and gave the test to white people, you'd see similar results.

Heck they could probably replace the black men with a white person wearing a turban or burqa and see similar results if the participants aren't Arab.

OR, even better, use sesame street characters or people wearing various Halloween monster costumes. You'll see those get shot more often than whatever the other group is, if the other group looks like the people doing the test.

Show me 4 random pictures of huge plaid wearing lumberjacks and I'll be all oh it's a Canadian don't shoot, but throw a mime in for 1 second and imma shoot that fucking mime.

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

Hey Head_Less, have you looked into things like the arrest statistics for marijuana (blacks get arrested far more often, despite blacks and whites using weed at about the same rate) or the reason they overturned Stop and Frisk in NYC (the results of this allegedly non-racial program were quite telling)?

It's troublesome when people keep looking at outcomes and blaming racism. There are other reasons for statistics like this, i.e. there could be greater police patrol presence in black communities leading to higher arrest rates for marijuana amongst blacks. Why could there be greater police patrol presence in black communities? Higher crime. Why? Because poverty and all the cultural problems associated with it. Black and native are completely interchangeable for US vs. Canada when it comes to crime stats; there's no widespread belief that we're all racist against natives here because we recognize the real problems.

Looking at the more detailed breakdown of black vs. white marijuana arrest rates, you look at Washington DC for example where over 65% of the police force is black, and yet you're still seeing many times higher arrest rates for blacks. Are the black cops racist? Of course not. One issue is, these marijuana possession arrests aren't exclusive/isolated to possession. If black people are arrested for other crimes they're automatically searched and possession can get tacked on. So while blacks might not be smoking more marijuana than whites they are involved in more crimes, and possession simply gets slapped on.

The other issue is the higher arrest rate discrepancy is based on survey-reported drug usage compared to total arrests. If one group is more likely underreport substance use on a survey then that would skew the data. If you cross-check the reported substance use on the survey to US department of heath and human services emergency department visits you find a discrepancy: blacks are 3.216 times more likely to be admitted to an emergency department due to marijuana (about 4x for all illicit drugs, cocaine + heroin + meth + MDMA + GHB + LCD + PCP, if I have my math right).
Using page 30 (it's national data so find US # black population and US # white population for 2011 elsewhere and do the math) http://archive.samhsa.gov/data/2k13/DAWN2k11ED/DAWN2k11ED.pdf

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

Hey Head_Less, have you looked into things like the arrest statistics for marijuana (blacks get arrested far more often, despite blacks and whites using weed at about the same rate)

And you think that is because of systemic racism?

Could it be that the police puts more effort into patroling areas with higher crime rates, which are minority black / latino slum areas, and thus finds more weed on blacks? Could it be that whites smoke pot in the confines of their home more, instead of openly "in da hood"? Or that there are more blacks who deal marijuana & other drugs, compared to whites?

In any case the solution is to legalize it. Not to throw people in jail for weed, thats rather insane.