Donald Trump and US politics

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:
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Vhlad wrote:
Racial disparities in outcome?

I explicitly addressed that in the bottom of my post. You probably should have read the whole thing before starting your reply.



Ironically, I can turn around and say exactly the same. I cited quite a lot of research that demonstrates that your postulation, that we're no longer racist, is wrong, and not just by a little bit.

You're citing research that looks at result/outcome differences but it's wrong to say that those differences are due to people still being racist.

It's a legacy effect, and more a function of clustering of poverty than anything else. I addressed this in my original comment, which I'll place in spoiler:

Spoiler
There used to be racism and there are lingering effects from that: family education, family wealth, and family living location. This drives real cultural and environmental differences.

When you cluster low-income housing in 1 spot you create communities with much poorer performance outcomes. All the low-income kids aggregated in 1 school impacts the schools funding, and the teaching standard moves with student capability. If half of your students are English second language or can't do homework at home because they're farming/working/babysitting/chores or don't want to do homework at home because they have a poor role model, the teaching standard for the entire class goes down. This extends to all service: police, fire, emergency/hospital, safe shopping and so on, it all suffers with low-income clustering. It's the same for the isolated native communities in Canada. It's the same for white or asian people who live in the ghetto.

The way to fix it is to break up all the ghettos/projects and fully funded reserves and provide distributed low-income housing, i.e. subsidize a few homes on every street and integrate the poor/dependent with the middle and upper class communities. Instead we have the opposite with the upper class building gated communities, the middle class disappearing, and every political party grouping the poor into clusters. Of course it's a shit show and the only way the rich are going to succeed in controlling the poor is by dividing them, building up that identity tension, and convincing them to fight each other.

PS. You're also linking me US hiring studies but as I said, this is from a Canadian perspective. Our Employment Equity Act makes it MUCH better to be a visible minority, woman, aboriginal, person with disability, or in some cases openly gay/trans when you're looking for a job or scholarship in Canada. Some US states banned affirmative action so it's not the same there.
Never underestimate what the mod community can do for PoE if you sell an offline client.
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jackof8lades wrote:
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Budget_player_cadet wrote:


That case was disturbing, and black-on-white hate crimes exist. However, the FBI has recorded about three times as many hate crimes going the other direction.


Asuming the numbers you provide are correct you still would have to factor in that there are 6 times as many white ppl then black so proportionaly speaking there is more black on white crime then the other way around.


The hate crime figures in that article do not mention the perpetrator's race. So what we have is 10% of the population receiving 30% of the total hate crimes, while the majority of the population gets closer to 10%. Assuming that all anti-white hate crime is from African-Americans, then yes, the skew is in that direction.
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"
Vhlad wrote:
You're citing research that looks at result/outcome differences but it's wrong to say that those differences are due to people still being racist.

It's a legacy effect, and more a function of clustering of poverty than anything else. I addressed this in my original comment, which I'll place in spoiler:

Spoiler
There used to be racism and there are lingering effects from that: family education, family wealth, and family living location. This drives real cultural and environmental differences.

When you cluster low-income housing in 1 spot you create communities with much poorer performance outcomes. All the low-income kids aggregated in 1 school impacts the schools funding, and the teaching standard moves with student capability. If half of your students are English second language or can't do homework at home because they're farming/working/babysitting/chores or don't want to do homework at home because they have a poor role model, the teaching standard for the entire class goes down. This extends to all service: police, fire, emergency/hospital, safe shopping and so on, it all suffers with low-income clustering. It's the same for the isolated native communities in Canada. It's the same for white or asian people who live in the ghetto.

The way to fix it is to break up all the ghettos/projects and fully funded reserves and provide distributed low-income housing, i.e. subsidize a few homes on every street and integrate the poor/dependent with the middle and upper class communities. Instead we have the opposite with the upper class building gated communities, the middle class disappearing, and every political party grouping the poor into clusters. Of course it's a shit show and the only way the rich are going to succeed in controlling the poor is by dividing them, building up that identity tension, and convincing them to fight each other.

PS. You're also linking me US hiring studies but as I said, this is from a Canadian perspective. Our Employment Equity Act makes it MUCH better to be a visible minority, woman, aboriginal, person with disability, or in some cases openly gay/trans when you're looking for a job or scholarship in Canada. Some US states banned affirmative action so it's not the same there.


...What legacy effect explains that merely having a black-sounding name reduces your chances of being called back for a job application? What legacy effect leads to people firing notably faster on African-Americans in simulations? Even if the answer is "because we're so used to seeing African-Americans as living in the ghetto/having worse education/being criminal", that doesn't actually help much. That's still a pronounced racial bias, judging an individual by their race first and foremost.

I think your solution is at least forward-thinking, although I'd be hesitant to endorse breaking up impoverished black communities by force, and it does tend to look past the reason such communities exist in the first place (surprise, it's racism!). And it's not like white flight is over, either...
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Last edited by Budget_player_cadet#3296 on Feb 22, 2017, 7:52:25 AM
That shooter bias study from University of Illinois is garbage.

The images last 1 second, maybe less. You press J to shoot or F to holster. It cycles between white or black people with various backgrounds in various positions holding various things.

The picture quality is so poor and zoomed out I can't even tell if people are armed in a second. So it's basically just a test of fear conditioning.

Which means the results will be completely dependent on test subjects. The sample size wasn't large and was comprised of mainly white participants.

If the university gave the test to only black people, more white people would be shot. It's just a fear conditioning response (in less than 1 second you're instinctually more likely to shoot something that looks different than you).

It's evidence of bias (irrelevant bias imo), not evidence of racism or "pervasive systemic racism"
Never underestimate what the mod community can do for PoE if you sell an offline client.
^ I'll have to try to find a link, but iirc, a similar simulation was done by police and even black policemen shot blacks more than whites.

Casually casual.

I would fire at anyone I don t know entering my house to steal shit for sure. This is were statistics met reality and who are the most prevalent to invade properties to steal goods.

If it was KKK fucks, I would shoot probably twice more than once but sadly those fuckers are not the one invading houses most of the time.

There is nothing racist in crime statistics, pure facts only.
Poe Pvp experience
https://youtu.be/Z6eg3aB_V1g?t=302
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Head_Less wrote:
I would fire at anyone I don t know entering my house to steal shit for sure. This is were statistics met reality and who are the most prevalent to invade properties to steal goods.

If it was KKK fucks, I would shoot probably twice more than once but sadly those fuckers are not the one invading houses most of the time.

There is nothing racist in crime statistics, pure facts only.


There is undoubtedly systemic racism, I'm not sure whether it's good or bad that it is mostly not a conscious racism. It depends how you look at it.
Casually casual.

"
Budget_player_cadet wrote:
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jackof8lades wrote:
"
Budget_player_cadet wrote:


That case was disturbing, and black-on-white hate crimes exist. However, the FBI has recorded about three times as many hate crimes going the other direction.


Asuming the numbers you provide are correct you still would have to factor in that there are 6 times as many white ppl then black so proportionaly speaking there is more black on white crime then the other way around.


The hate crime figures in that article do not mention the perpetrator's race. So what we have is 10% of the population receiving 30% of the total hate crimes, while the majority of the population gets closer to 10%. Assuming that all anti-white hate crime is from African-Americans, then yes, the skew is in that direction.


a skew? nice downplay its twice the amount not exactly what a would call a skew.
And it still doesnt matter if black ppl get 30% of the hatecrimes proportionaly speaking they still commit more hatecrimes then white ppl(well not just hate crimes they are overrepresented in almost all crime statistics).
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TheAnuhart wrote:

There is undoubtedly systemic racism, I'm not sure whether it's good or bad that it is mostly not a conscious racism. It depends how you look at it.


There is no proof of systemic racism . What is called racism are facts about a race more prevalent to do bad deeds due to the extreme condition lot of them are living in.

Yet, those conditions like single mother raising alone 5 children or low education because of dropping out of school are not the fact of a system but only from the culture of said population.





Poe Pvp experience
https://youtu.be/Z6eg3aB_V1g?t=302
"
Head_Less wrote:
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TheAnuhart wrote:

There is undoubtedly systemic racism, I'm not sure whether it's good or bad that it is mostly not a conscious racism. It depends how you look at it.


There is no proof of systemic racism . What is called racism are facts about a race more prevalent to do bad deeds due to the extreme condition lot of them are living in.

Yet, those conditions like single mother raising alone 5 children or low education because of dropping out of school are not the fact of a system but only from the culture of said population.







There totally is in many ways. It can stem from actual racism years ago. Racism is part of much of our modern life indirectly.

And in case you wanted more of a link to this systemic racism and actual crime commuted rather than systemic racism in dealing with crime.

Lead and crime.
Casually casual.

Last edited by TheAnuhart#4741 on Feb 22, 2017, 8:48:07 AM

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