keep modifications similar item level

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AcidDrop88 wrote:

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gonzaw wrote:

It doesn't make sense for the last boss in an RPG to drop a sword that has the chance to have either 1 damage or 1000 damage. If you get 1 damage you just go "WTF THIS GAME SUCKS" and never play it again

I literally fell out of my chair laughing. Seriously, if this is the way you think when you play a game, maybe you shouldn't play any games at all. If this is your thinking, you are obviously a gigantic fucking baby.

Apparently it's the way of thinking of every dev in every other game ever since you don't see those mechanics in any other type of game (I doubt I'm mistaken)

So yeah, they are all gigantic fucking babies as well I presume.

honestly the whole idea of "godly" gear is absurd with this idea. it'll be easier to get the higher ranks yes, but doesnt mean every single one of them will be that high rank. let alone max value.

all this does is make sure your not getting gimped on getting rediculously low rolls that are just terrible.

so again lets take life as an example, and lets say we have the max item level, which is 73. so we're looking at drops from maps

now there are 10 ranks with 10 begin the minimum and 109 being the maximum.

so lets say we'll make the minimum 5 ranks below the current level.

this means you have a 1 in 5 chances to get the highest rank, while also getting the mid rank of 50-59 hp

50 hp is bare minimum I would for that level of difficulty and mid range would be about 70-79 hp which again isnt godly by any means.

if you do believe this is too much that 50hp is still "AMAZINGLY" good then reduce it even more to 6 or 7 ranks below then. but honestly I dont feel it should be any lower.

also concern about twink gear will not happen because you must have at the very least the level to wear such gear, and those gear only drop on lower levels, thus this minimum wouldnt even have any effect on those low levels since it wont start showing until that item level goes beyond the minimum rank.

The only thing that this would accomplish would be to inflate the value of gear.

If the game's difficulty stayed the same, it would trivialize progression and we would enter the D3 realm of play where everything is faceroll.

Granted, in softcore, the trend is slowly but surely progressing to a state where all of the best items are available to everyone. If you implement a change like this, it would accelerate the rate of gear inflation dramatically.

Eventually, you would just ask the developers to further decrease the values of mods an item could roll to gain an even higher status of "godliness" in your gear.

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There is an equilibrium in all systems like this. The balancing point is how difficult the game is compared to how difficult it is to obtain gear. Making better gear easier to obtain means that the difficulty of the game would have to be increased an equal amount to account for the newly formed status of the players.

This would, overall, reduce the gap between godlike gear and normal gear which would actually make the best gear in the game have a more limited appeal. That's to say that getting godlike gear would not make the game much easier. Getting godlike gear is appealing because it can make your character feel godlike. Without that appeal, the quality and drive to improve your character is reduced heavily.

-1 for the idea. Hopefully my explanation is concise enough.

Problems like these are why God invented Chaos Orbs.

-1 to the suggestion

I urge everyone who truly believes that putting a minimum cap on what modifications you can get on a piece of gear, go and study statistics, or at the very least figure out what permutations are.

figure out exactly what this change will do and at what the percentage is to get your "godly" gear, and you will find that the change will be less than 1% difference.

your not gonna get a huge increase in godly gear, assuming your refering to godly gear as having all max rank (not even thinking max value)

but you will find that decent gear will be shown a lot more.

plus currently upgrading a gear is only changing the base damage or base defense stats of an item, getting higher mods is not always the case because a lvl 10 item could have the same mods as a level 80 item, less likely but still easily possible. to me that is not right, a level 80 item, should have better stats than a level 10 item no matter what, because in order to get that level 80 item, you had to put a lot more effort into it than a level 10 item.

should an item always have level 80 mods? no of course not because at 1 rank, the range of what the value can be is very narrow. but thats why I suggested a cap being 3-5 ranks below. the range will still be large enough to keep the permutation at such a large value that rng will still take effect.

tl:dr version, learn what permutation is

I read the first page, then guessed what the suggestion was the rest of it. Here is a very simple solution, people:

Let's look at the damage scaling prefix:

Heavy 1 Local Physical Damage +% 20 to 49
Serrated 11 Local Physical Damage +% 50 to 69
Wicked 23 Local Physical Damage +% 70 to 89
Vicious 35 Local Physical Damage +% 90 to 109
Bloodthirsty 46 Local Physical Damage +% 110 to 129
Cruel 60 Local Physical Damage +% 130 to 149
Tyrannical 73 Local Physical Damage +% 150 to 169

So an ilvl 73 could only roll the lvl 35 mod or higher.

With 7 different ones, the chance to get each one is 1/7 = 14.3%
By eliminating the first 3, your chances are now 1/4 = 25%

But wait, there is a simple solution!

Keep the 14.3% chance for the ilvl 46, ilvl 60, and ilvl 73.

The chance to get the mods that were cut out is now applied to the ilvl 35 mod.
So, ilvl 35 becomes 4(1/7) = 57%

You still have the same chance to get the best gear as before, but now you aren't insta-screwed if you roll the lowest roll. 90-109% increased phys dmg is still decent and doesn't render the item useless as the lower mod rolls did before.

Tada!

Thoughts?

now that is an excellent Idea, and I think someone actually suggested something similar, except they didnt use the idea of keeping the current chance and just spreading out the differences.

though I think the other post was a bit better. because your allocating the chances to get the lowest rolls into the median so your keeping the chance to get the best or worst roll the same, while increasing the chance to get a decent mediocre roll.

but implementing that will probably take a while to figure out the algorithm to dictate how to allocate the chances for each since there are some modifications that wont be affected cuz the amount of ranks possible are so small already such as shield block chance and life leech for example.

but yes, if your truly worried about having an inflated amount of whatever you call a "godly gear" then you can always adjust the drop ratios.

bottom line is we shouldnt be getting level 1 mods at end game. which is already shown in this game because you dont find rusted swords dropping in maps now do you?

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DarkenDragon wrote:

tl:dr version, learn what permutation is

You could not be any more wrong, sir. Seriously, did you think about what would happen when you cut out a third of the possible affixes an item could roll?

Let's say your aim RIGHT NOW is to get an energy shield chest with over 900 ES. If you happen to know anything about ES, you'll immediately recognize that this is damn near impossible. There were (as far as I know) only two items of that caliber that this game has seen to date. One was in closed beta, one in open and is currently open to mirroring services.

The probability of rolling the set of affixes on an ilvl 77 required to produce such a piece chest RIGHT NOW is approximately 0.022%. That's 229 chests that match the criteria for every million that are rolled.

IF you set the affix requirements to the ones that you've suggested (no more than 4 levels below the current highest possible given the item's ilvl), let's take a look at that probability again: 0.2% That's TEN TIMES the probability of the current system.

Let's say you wanted to make sure no item rolled less than three affixes under the highest possible given the item's ilvl: 0.4% TWENTY TIMES the probability of the current system.

Now keep in mind that we're talking about a seriously GODLIKE piece of gear. Why don't we lower our standards a bit? Most CI users would DIE to get their hands on an 800 ES piece of gear. Let's look at the three probabilities: Current system, no more than 4 tiers less, and no more than 3 tiers less. For comparison's sake, we'll throw our 900 ES items in the chart too.

ES | Now | 4 Tiers Less | 3 Tiers Less
=======================================
900 | 0.000229 | 0.002050 | 0.004124
800 | 0.002160 | 0.011248 | 0.019324
700 | 0.009218 | 0.038836 | 0.061419
600 | 0.021569 | 0.082283 | 0.112417
500 | 0.056687 | 0.168221 | 0.203242

In the best case, you've tripled the probability that a particular value of ES would drop and in the worst case, you've increased the probability of a godlike piece by TWENTY TIMES.

Requests to inflate the value of gear should just be dropped on the spot, this is ridiculous.

i'd like you to post that onto a graph of 0-100 for the percent chance of getting it

now tell me how much of that actually moved. 0.0002 compared to 0.004 is still so minor that you wont even see the difference. sure its 20 times more, but the chances of you getting it is still very small that its not even noticing.

its like arguing that a lantency of 10 ms is better than 60ms, you wont even see the difference, what is there to argue about? its virtually the same amount of 0

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gonzaw wrote:

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taekvideo wrote:

Even if you only made the minimum equal to half of the item level... it would make the best of the best pieces of gear ~60 times easier to get... at which point everyone and their grandmother would have godly gear. Nevermind if you restricted it to even closer to item level.

The mods themselves are random, so why would it be "godly" gear if the stats you get are "useless" or not helpful to your build?

If you use CI, and get a "+10 to Maximum Life" mod in a ilvl 70 gear, then what's the difference if you get a "+80 to Maximum Life" mod instead?

Yes, it may make you a little bit "stronger" in other aspects, but surely it's not anything big enough to panic about how everybody will suddenly become "god" with "godly gear" and the like.

Don't put words in my mouth.
I said you'd be 60 times more likely to get godly gear from any particular drop, not that every piece of gear would be godly.

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DarkenDragon wrote:

i'd like you to post that onto a graph of 0-100 for the percent chance of getting it

now tell me how much of that actually moved. 0.0002 compared to 0.004 is still so minor that you wont even see the difference. sure its 20 times more, but the chances of you getting it is still very small that its not even noticing.

its like arguing that a lantency of 10 ms is better than 60ms, you wont even see the difference, what is there to argue about? its virtually the same amount of 0

Let's call a "godly" piece of gear one which has 6 mods, that all work well together, and has the highest rank on each of them.
Let C be the probability that a piece of gear has 6 mods that work well together. This isn't changed by anything in the suggestion so it stays the same.
Let M be the number of ranks on each mod.
So the initial probability is C * 1/(M^6).
Now since you removed the lowest half of the possible ranks, the new probability is C * 1/((M/2)^6) = C * 2^6 / M^6 = C * 64 / M^6, which is 64 times more likely than before.
Now suppose that the game is currently balanced so a dedicated player can get all godly gear in about 180 days (6 months... which is fairly reasonable/common in this genre). Thus with the new probability, it will only take 180/64, or about 3 days for the same player to get all godly gear. You don't consider that a drastic change? Pretty sure EVERYONE would notice the difference.