keep modifications similar item level

It would ruin the RnG. If you always would get a decent roll, people wouldn't need so many orbs anymore. I, for example, don't go for max rolls (time and orb consume is just to high for that), so a devent roll would just be enough for me. With your suggestion, it would be no problem for me to always get a decent roll with just 1 orb.

It's not a bad idea, but I don't think it fits in the unforgiving world of PoE.

As a possible solution, GGG could just implement a rare drop orb that randomizes the *ranks* (to stick to your term here) of all modifiers on an item within the possible itemelevel range.

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DarkNRG wrote:

Wait... so you gentleman want every piece of gear you pick up to be godly? That's part of the RNG man. You realize how many good items one might find if they made this change, I would wager far to many. Those low level affixes while shitty to roll on gear when crafting high level items make getting a good one far more valuable, I cannot support this as it would lessen not only the accomplishment of getting a good item, it would also serve to make certain currencies far to valuable.

That's not really how I envision ANY gear in ANY game working, whether it has RNG or not.

Ideally, if you have high-level gear in any type of game, then it should roll high-level stats.

It doesn't make sense for the last boss in an RPG to drop a sword that has the chance to have either 1 damage or 1000 damage. If you get 1 damage you just go "WTF THIS GAME SUCKS" and never play it again
However, in PoE it's acceptable because of the economy regarding currency usage and how "volatile" gear is and the like, so people just accepted it like it is.

"

Those low level affixes while shitty to roll on gear when crafting high level items make getting a good one far more valuable, I cannot support this as it would lessen not only the accomplishment of getting a good item, it would also serve to make certain currencies far to valuable.

Don't be content with a "bad" mechanic just because things "are okay" with it!
If doing this "makes currencies more valuable", then the solution isn't to blindly say "This suggestion should go to the trash" and that's it.
The solution is to gauge what changes should be made on the "currency problem", and then rationally decide if the change is worth it for "fixing" this problem.


If all mods are random enough, I don't see how this would hurt.
Yes, people will not use 1000 chaos orbs before getting a good roll, they will waste 100 instead.
Speaking individually, as in, a single player enjoying the game individually, that's good!
But yeah, it "fucks" other stuff up.

The way stuff works in this game is complex, since it has multiplayer and social features and the like. That doesn't mean we should just be lazy and if we are presented with a "complex" problem just diss it!
Also I'm sure GGG have a better idea of how the game works. If this suggestions goes to GGG I'm sure they will know how to handle it better, so why just completely diss it?

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AcidDrop88 wrote:

"

DarkenDragon wrote:

your miss understanding what I mean by ranks.

lets take life for instance, there are 10 different ranks of life mods. each having a 10 point range (10-19 for rank 1, 20-29 for rank 2 ect.)

so the highest rank would be for an item level 73. which is the Vigorous mod.

so with my suggestion if you had a item level 73, the lowest rank you can have is athlete or Virile which is item level 54 and 44 respectively. so for an item level 73 item, your range of health you can have is 70/80 to 109, instead of 10-109

the reason why I use rank instead of item level is because some mod's max rank isnt all that high. or theres only a few ranks of that mod type.

so if that is the case, you can still get the level 1 rank of those modifications with a high level item because those low ranks still have a big effect over all. where as these flat values arent as effective in higher levels.

the other reason for this change is for divine orbs, since a divine orb can only reroll an item's mod value based on the mod's rank. so if you happen to have only healthy on your gear, then the highest you'll ever roll is 19 instead of 109.

No, whole point of the game is to have RnG. Deal with it. I see what you are saying though but that would be game breaking and it seems like you just want to conform this game more towards easy street.

What I would agree upon is maybe instead of 10-109 make it 30-109 but nothing more or its simply retarded. even then I do not think this should be implemented or changed.

Sorry but variance should be studied before being thrown into the game saying "it's RNG and that's how the world works deal with it".

RNG is not the same.
Probability functions are not all the same, you can have different kinds of RNG

RNG that goes uniformly from 1-100 is not the same as one that goes uniformly from 50-100.
Nor is one that goes uniformly from 1-100 the same as one that goes from 1-100 but is loaded on 50.

Nobody is "dissing" RNG here, OP is just trying to modify RNG so....you know...the game makes sense :P

Also again, all RNG should be studied, it's not "RNG->Good".
Imagine if every boss had random health. Imagine if Vaal in Merciless could go from 1 HP to 1.000.000.000.000.000.000 HP randomly
I doubt you would support that RNG.
Same here.


Just like in many other aspects, I see a "bad" (relatively) design in terms of mechanics, yet everything else about the game is designed using it.
So trying to improve this "bad" design directly "fucks" everything else up. Then this is used as the main argument against trying to fix the "bad" design itself, since fixing it directly causes other problems.
What I don't like is how people miss the big picture and basically just diss the suggestion and not try to actually figure out how it could work :(

I've seen this happen in like 80% of all suggestion threads I've read that had "cool" suggestions or that proposed to fix a "problem".

I guess that's also a core problem with the game itself perhaps :P

I love how people come and say nah it would be game breaking without bringing any argument.

Of course is up to GGG to balance the min Mods for each itemlevel.

Please tell me what sense has to have +10HP in a level 70 item.

And for all "is RNG argues" I'll tell you all one secret, RNG is fixed, is a computer program it will always be programmed and have a range of values, devs can set the range they choose and make some values have more chances to happen than others. So why not give our opinions about it?

Has the game launched or this is a open beta still?

Cause from most people answers one would think that the game is already released and working perfectly...

EDIT: Haven't read Gonzaw post when wrote mine, he explains it better than me, recommend all reading above post :)

I don't know if it works like this currently, but it would not make too much sense to make the rank rolls totally random, there should be a weight for the different ranks based on the ilvl.

It would make sense to make it so that a higher ilvl have a greater chance to roll a higher median rank.

Lets say a prefix has 5 ranks, ranging from ilvl 1 to 80 (just an example):

Rank 1, req ilvl 1
Rank 2, req ilvl 20
Rank 3, req ilvl 40
Rank 4, req ilvl 60
Rank 5, req ilvl 80

Then you got a drop of that ilvl 80 and want to craft, then the probability to get a rank of that prefix (when you get it) if it is totally random would be like:

Rank 1, req ilvl 1 : 20%
Rank 2, req ilvl 20 : 20%
Rank 3, req ilvl 40 : 20%
Rank 4, req ilvl 60 : 20%
Rank 5, req ilvl 80 : 20%

To me this does not look like a good way to do it.. But what if you distribute the chance so that there is a good chance to get the medium ranks, but still as hard (it should probably be a lower chance to get the best ranks, to balance it out if the above is how it works) to get the better ranks. For example for a ilvl 80 there could be an increased chance to get maybe ilvl 40 ranks:


Rank 1, req ilvl 1 : 10%
Rank 2, req ilvl 20 : 10%
Rank 3, req ilvl 40 : 40%
Rank 4, req ilvl 60 : 30%
Rank 5, req ilvl 80 : 10%

This will bring less junk, and maybe more gear you can use, but you will not easily get those good items.

Just a thought, i have no idea how it works as of now...

Even if you only made the minimum equal to half of the item level... it would make the best of the best pieces of gear ~60 times easier to get... at which point everyone and their grandmother would have godly gear. Nevermind if you restricted it to even closer to item level.

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taekvideo wrote:

Even if you only made the minimum equal to half of the item level... it would make the best of the best pieces of gear ~60 times easier to get... at which point everyone and their grandmother would have godly gear. Nevermind if you restricted it to even closer to item level.

The mods themselves are random, so why would it be "godly" gear if the stats you get are "useless" or not helpful to your build?

If you use CI, and get a "+10 to Maximum Life" mod in a ilvl 70 gear, then what's the difference if you get a "+80 to Maximum Life" mod instead?

Yes, it may make you a little bit "stronger" in other aspects, but surely it's not anything big enough to panic about how everybody will suddenly become "god" with "godly gear" and the like.

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gonzaw wrote:

It doesn't make sense for the last boss in an RPG to drop a sword that has the chance to have either 1 damage or 1000 damage. If you get 1 damage you just go "WTF THIS GAME SUCKS" and never play it again

I literally fell out of my chair laughing. Seriously, if this is the way you think when you play a game, maybe you shouldn't play any games at all. If this is your thinking, you are obviously a gigantic fucking baby.

the way it currently works though is first you get your item

1. the item has an item level, and then it does a roll to see if it'll gain a prefix/suffix (depending on what it is at)

2. if the roll wins, then it does a roll to see which stat or mod type it should get from either the prefix pool or the suffix pool

3. then it rolls which rank it will get, it takes every rank that is blow the item's itemlevel

4. then it rolls the value of that rank.

5. repeat 1-4 until all prefix/suffix are filled.

thats how it works right now, im just saying change 3 such that its the top 3-5 ranks below the item's itemlevel

the reason why I say ranks is because if you were to go specificly on item level, and say the minimum could only be 30 item level difference. then something like block chance would not exist at item levels between 40-58 because the gap is just so huge.

but with choosing between ranks, you'll never have that problem

plus risk and reward should always go hand in hand. if your fighting mobs or bosses which are of such high levels, you shouldnt have a reward that could possibly be so low that only a low level player would find use of it.

the modifications on the item should reflect the level of difficulty to get said item, sure you can have a good roll and bad roll, but the bad should not be so bad that its almost nothing.

having an item with 3-4 ranks below it's item level is no way godly or even good. its barely decent, and in this game with how much of a gear check it is, you cant afford to get really terrible rolls on your gear. especially for health since we can all agree that health is the number 1 required stat on most gear (unless your CI) you must have a certain amount of life in order to avoid getting one shotted, and getting a 10 health roll on a piece of gear is just terrible and you will HAVE to reroll it no matter what the other stats on it unless your other gear has godly rolls on health. which is probabily not happening. where as if the minimum was only a few ranks below, your gonna garentee that if you do roll health, you'll have something that is at least acceptable and can be compensated by another gear.

either way, there should be a minimum limit to what ranks you can get

If this were put into effect, nearly every magic/rare would be a very good item ("godly," as often called) because they could get nothing but high mods. Restricting high-level items to have only high-level mods couldn't possibly have any other effect. Drop rates and orb chances would have to be reduced to compensate for the abundance of good gear.

Also, you wouldn't be able to find twink gear at all at high levels (the required levels would be too high due to the high mods) but you could get very good twink gear far too easily by using a high-level character to farm whatever areas are level-appropriate for your alt.