We are seeing first hand why GGG needs to step in..

"

Docbp87 wrote:

"

allbusiness wrote:

You are no longer the target audience. Welcome to the gaming industry. GGG has realized they can make more money off other people then you who are extremely fickle in what you want in the first place. All they have to do is provide the carrot.

If the other 95% of the population (and you are an extreme minority) is enjoying the game and spending money in the game because they are enjoying the game, GGG and every other sane gaming company is going to cater to that 95%. Get over it. The game grew, Chris wants to grow the game, and wants to expand the vision of the game. It's not like Atziri is BiS for every build, it's BiS for exactly one playstyle, which is 2H melee. There are still plenty of other playstyles that require other types of items. Sure it's faster to cap out one character, just roll another one. Why is that such a bad thing?

Its funny because Chris said basically the exact OPPOSITE of this in a recent interview... That the most important segment of the player base is the "devoted vocal fanbase from many years ago" and that they will not compromise that group's experience to attract the casual gamer, or tone down the difficulty to increase the playerbase and $$$.

See here (~the 4:45 mark is where this bit starts)

It reminds of do what preacher says instead of doing what preacher does...

Do you remember those aspects that you "devoted vocal fanbase from many years ago" asked to be resolved, and Charan was one of the most vocal voice that raised some of the best topics around this forum, and how many did they really tackled in a timely manner?

Since GGG grown a lot, they should had more people focused not only on improving technical problems and providing new content on a quarterly basis, but balance, trade, QoL and polishing improvements that are needed for PoE to feel like a finished product, and I'm sorry to say, they still have lots of work ahead...

The game never felt truly difficult as you always had broken skills/mechanics to trivialise content, and "smart" gameplay rewards those that use them - skill play is needed only when dealing with more mechanical fights, and the rest of the game remains a "clear screens while watching TV" with the ocasional one shot due to "pop the weasel" mechanics...

It holds interest when hoarding, but other than that, you get very few incentives to make you tackle the high end content - reaching 100 is easier/faster when running medium-high difficult content, trading presumes skill when scamming/flipping or even manipulating the market by various interest groups, balance seems to always be skewed on a quarterly basis, we lack lots of polishing and QoL features, and also there still rise technical problems...

Of course they made lots of improments, and they also got the end game content more tuned towards the casual n00bs, but if you had a bit of skill, played meta, you could have pushed for the end game fairly easy, and that is a personal view from a casual n00b that plays the game since 1.3.0...

It never the less remains one of the most beautiful journeys, and the experience of the lore and the game as a whole is one of the best in aRPG, but they could and should improve more a bit faster, as adding new content could only keep us satisfied so much...

"

Docbp87 wrote:

"

allbusiness wrote:

You are no longer the target audience. Welcome to the gaming industry. GGG has realized they can make more money off other people then you who are extremely fickle in what you want in the first place. All they have to do is provide the carrot.

If the other 95% of the population (and you are an extreme minority) is enjoying the game and spending money in the game because they are enjoying the game, GGG and every other sane gaming company is going to cater to that 95%. Get over it. The game grew, Chris wants to grow the game, and wants to expand the vision of the game. It's not like Atziri is BiS for every build, it's BiS for exactly one playstyle, which is 2H melee. There are still plenty of other playstyles that require other types of items. Sure it's faster to cap out one character, just roll another one. Why is that such a bad thing?

Its funny because Chris said basically the exact OPPOSITE of this in a recent interview... That the most important segment of the player base is the "devoted vocal fanbase from many years ago" and that they will not compromise that group's experience to attract the casual gamer, or tone down the difficulty to increase the playerbase and $$$.

See here (~the 4:45 mark is where this bit starts)

Chris also argued with me and many other people who have some level of networking experience that desync was impossible to fix, and that a smooth and fast response time was not possible under the 'wait for server' method.

We all know how that turned out, and who was right in the end.


Not just that, there is no 'toning down the game', the game is harder at red tiers and up than ever. You fuck up even once, and you die. Period. The damage scaling has gone to astronomical levels on mobs, so I'm not sure where people get this idea that the game is 'ez mode' at all. It's just merely much easier to reach red maps than ever before, and actually progress to the highest tiers. The highest tier bosses are still absurdly hard for the vast majority of players and builds, and not many of them (including me until usually towards the very end of the ladder) will ever get to them.


Point being, what Chris and GGG says, and what they do are two very different things. And I don't fault the GGG team one bit. Someone like Goetz will never be satisfied with the game, ever. He will always ask for more of a challenge, he will ask for more grind, more this and that, and that's simply because he has an unrealistic amount of time available to him. You cannot balance the game solely around someone like him, or Snorkle who plays like 16 hours a day, or I_NO who has unlimited time. Even games like DotA are not balanced solely around competitive play (I know, I'm a legit 6k+ player in that game and I used to work with IceFrog's balancing team back in the 5.xx days of DotA allstars). You have to make your game more accessible, more user friendly, appealing to play. You can't make money otherwise. It's stupid to think you can just cater to literally maybe 1-3% of the gaming population and be successful.


People who have zero experience in actual game development literally will never understand why decisions have to be made. You can't make a game without money. You can't put in all the cool features, put in QoL improvements, etc. without money. People simply demand, and yet they don't understand that you can't have everything the way you particularly want it. It's the same reason why the VR market is currently so niche and crashing. People there think you should have full blown AAA quality games with a huge storyline, skill tree, over arching themes, polished gameplay, etc. on bleeding edge technology.

"

allbusiness wrote:

Point being, what Chris and GGG says, and what they do are two very different things. And I don't fault the GGG team one bit. Someone like Goetz will never be satisfied with the game, ever. He will always ask for more of a challenge, he will ask for more grind, more this and that, and that's simply because he has an unrealistic amount of time available to him. You cannot balance the game solely around someone like him, or Snorkle who plays like 16 hours a day, or I_NO who has unlimited time. Even games like DotA are not balanced solely around competitive play (I know, I'm a legit 6k+ player in that game and I used to work with IceFrog's balancing team back in the 5.xx days of DotA allstars). You have to make your game more accessible, more user friendly, appealing to play. You can't make money otherwise. It's stupid to think you can just cater to literally maybe 1-3% of the gaming population and be successful.


People who have zero experience in actual game development literally will never understand why decisions have to be made. You can't make a game without money. You can't put in all the cool features, put in QoL improvements, etc. without money. People simply demand, and yet they don't understand that you can't have everything the way you particularly want it. It's the same reason why the VR market is currently so niche and crashing. People there think you should have full blown AAA quality games with a huge storyline, skill tree, over arching themes, polished gameplay, etc. on bleeding edge technology.

That is just false, I removed all of my supporter packs from being showcased because I'm not happy with the direction the game has been going for a while and I don't feel like its important to showcase them when discussing issues about the game.

However, when I enjoy the game and play the game for a good amount of time I am willing and able to spend a corresponding amount into the game in terms of support. Will I always want more in terms of general improvements to the game, sure, but to say I wouldn't be satisfied with the content\balance enough to play the game and enjoy it isn't true.

In terms of unrealistic amount of time available, again that isn't true, I work 35-40 hours a week, is the rest of the time available for sleeping, playing, watching tv, eating, ect, sure would I dump a good amount into game\games, sure.

I played a good amount in tempest, a league that contained div cards and ways to acquire gear and power easier, but when you look at everything GGG has done to make power, gear and the game overall easier, it makes a player like me sad, a player that fits into the group that Chris said they care about the most. I can't speak for all players in that group, but as a player in that group, I can say what Chris says is different then their actions they have done.

You can design a game that is fun for casual players, but still contains enough for the hardcore playerbase. Especially in a game like this, which has perm leagues, that literally are the solution to "i dont have time to invest", so the limitation of time is no longer a factor in terms of getting access to power\gear. Furthermore, GGG's structure of getting money further supports less, but more, rather then more sales, but less at a lessor value. Supporter packs, higher cost of mtx, ect all fit the mentality of people that would invest more. Furthermore, its much harder to acquire customers, then it is to keep the customers you have happy.


This game was funded by players like me and was created for players like me, now you are saying its not longer possible for GGG to cater to people like me, which is false.

Even as drastic of a thing like enabling us to create custom leagues where we can change aspects we don't like or grab aspects that we do might be enough to keep our money into the game.

I think what people fail to realize is that players like myself have made concessions after concessions in terms of what we want in order for the game to have a larger appeal and there has been nothing done to increase the enjoyment of players like myself. We even gave up our own separate designed temp league...in order for GGG to follow their vision and goals closer.

Trading works by mostly ripping people off... sorry to tell you this but that's how capitalism works my friend. GGG has the trading system in place for a reason and there's no reason to change it now just because you feel like you're getting ripped off.

I feel like a ton of items are not properly priced and it's a hindrance to me but I also know it's a necessity.

I'm no where near rich or anything or have the best gear or all my challenges done but that's because I'm not good at the game but I also understand this game caters more to the hardcore gamer than it does me and that's perfectly fine. I won't stop playing because it's harder for me to get into the game. I will learn everything i need to learn in due time ans become better. I'm in no rush

"

You guys should cut your playing time down to 4 hours per day or something if you want to feel more of an endless grind.

Curb the urge to use 'service' guys for challenges and to pass through bosses, etc.

Use single target skills. Make builds that require more than 1 button mash or right-click to explode the screen.

Don't 'shop' for gear. Find it on the ground.

You guys are your own worst enemies.

Also, set higher goals for yourselves.

I don't see 40 challenges or a level 100 character

"play less"

Yeah you can tell the game design is fairly shit when as a solution to a problem someone needs to bring that idea up.


In terms of 40 challenges, why bother for me personally, the idea of doing the challenges for mtx's arent rewarding for me, I did 1-2 of them in the past, but overall if the game is not fun, why would I play it just to reach the challenges? In terms of level 100 character same thing applies, if anything its actually worst now then before because at least before I would have more progression except for leveling.

Why I'm responding to you as if you were a legit player or that you make well thought out informed post idk, should probably stop responding to people that hide behind alt accounts.

Set higher goals? As in what? If I'm getting the irreplaceable endgame weapon for my build 6 days into the league, when I didnt even start the league with that goal, its a problem...I don't need to be a rocket scientist to realize the games direction has turned into a free loot fest.

"

Don't blame GGG for your dependence on item shopping.

There's PLENTY of grind and difficulty in PoE for you if you truly seek it.

If by seek it you mean don't trade at all and play builds that are known to be weaker, ok.

"

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

Don't blame GGG for your dependence on item shopping.

There's PLENTY of grind and difficulty in PoE for you if you truly seek it.

If by seek it you mean don't trade at all and play builds that are known to be weaker, ok.

Yes. That's what I mean. PoE has always been that way. Wit their flavour of the month buff meta design, there's always a one button masher 'easy way out'.

Break free and be an innovator instead of playing the path of shopping channel.

Completely ignore the fact I was playing melee ok.

The game hasnt always given you this much power and loot and it was for sure not attractive to shitty players that came with perandus, but ok you know better because youra ccount age indicates you've been playing for a while, o wait it doesnt.