One of major problems of the game - life leech

vaal pact should be changed to work only for attack builds
and vinktar nerfed to 5% light leech

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InAshesTheyShallReap wrote:

vaal pact should be charged to work only for attack builds
and vinktar nerfed to 5% light leech

That's dumb you're limiting diversity congratulations in terms of the vaal pact thing. Nothing wrong VP when bosses / mobs hit like trucks like do you even think ashes?

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herflik wrote:

Vaal Pact is mechanic meaning if someone with a bit of brain know how to use it, he will abuse it.

Additionaly I dont need to prove you what you ask for since economy of the game is proof by itself. With you totally ignored when quoting me, because thats simply to hard for you to counter. Economy from sites like poe.trade dont lie since it show statistic from massive pool of data. And you ask for minimal data pools (that are impossible to massivly check, maybe even by GGG itself) just to prove your own point. And small data amount create false assumptions. So yeah, try to explain everybody here why items that give nothing more than VP cost more than many (if not most) people totall gear worth.

they dont give vaal pact, they let you have instant leech to life and mana while still having regen so you can run things like bloodrage and counter degens. I run these gloves on my arc build, I wouldnt take vp if I didnt have the gloves on that build, Id just have normal leech because I wouldnt want to lose my life regen. Back when vp had 40% effectiveness and was really hard to get to I argued that these gloves were broken and should not be in the game, at the time they were worth like 80 exalts a pair. Theyre ok now imo, theyre just a powerful unique, I got those for about 20.

So you cant provide a single example of a vaal pact build other than bv vinktars that is doing anything non vaal pact builds cant do? Vaal pact is this massive problem right so you should be able to link me 20 builds off the bat that are all trivialising the game in ways non vp builds cant, everyones going vp with everything and what they are doing is unheard of outside of vp, its impossible. So where are they?

Ill help you out, if you want to find an example you can dig out a 3000 exalt, half a million dps ci melee build using a loath bane that degens 4% of its es pool every second between fights in order to get enough leech to make vp really strong when its recovering the damage bloodorage is doing to the character. You could point out that char can clear X content X amount of seconds faster than a slightly less damage version who doesnt have or need vp to survive reflect.

Anything else? Anything happening in temp leagues outside of full mirror level standard chars and bladevortex builds? What am I missing here?

Hi Snork :x

Oh man .. that snorkle guy must be trolling .. or smoke some seriously fucked up shit.

I would run Vaal Pact if I wasn't running legacy Vinktar's. The flask is broken, and now it is still broken when used with VP. Obviously VP is most broken with CI builds, because there the downside doesn't matter AND you can fully delve into the sponge gameplay.

The only reason I do not trivialize end-game content is that I have 4.7k HP. I can still kill the guardians, not sure about the Shaper. And I completely trivialize all non-boss content because I leech 500% of my life pool with a single right click, instantly.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

you cant do that without bv and vinktars, u can use the gloves to replace vp. Theres a ton of builds using vp who cant do this, the build that is doing this is vinktars bv, thats where the problem with this build is. Show me 1 million damage spellcasters who arnt bv, show me any caster doing this using vaal pact who doesnt also have vinktars and bv.

you arent getting it. come on snorkle.

Im comparing mechanics

mechanically this can happen because of VP and only because of VP (or acuities)- any such mechanics of instant leech

as you long as your leech %*N is bigger than your health pool M, you get all your hit points back

it was matter of time once we hit that N. again, if you do a billion damage, its possible

without an instant life leech mechanic, that is impossible. you will only leech 20% of your pool PER SECOND, no matter how many billion dps you have.

VP is the culprit, and the more damage/power creep goes up, the better it becomes.

kinda like why we are all using 64 bit systems now. turns out 32 bit words for address space werent enough for memory consumption we have nowadays. or 256 bit encryption. or ipv6. or WPA2 instead of WEP

things that seemed ok because they were unreachable before turned out to be not ok/not enough/or brute-forceable by computing power.

same way with poe and power creep. the amount of damage we can do to effectively get enough leech back to cover all our health is here.

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I_NO wrote:

Hi Snork :x

hello little miss xx :)

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dyneol wrote:

Oh man .. that snorkle guy must be trolling .. or smoke some seriously fucked up shit.

or perhaps Im one of the more experienced and informed players in this thread.

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Char1983 wrote:

The only reason I do not trivialize end-game content is that I have 4.7k HP. I can still kill the guardians, not sure about the Shaper. And I completely trivialize all non-boss content because I leech 500% of my life pool with a single right click, instantly.

Ok, you got a character who can trivialise non boss content with leech, I believe it, so do I, so do many ppl I know, wouldnt even dream of disputing a claim like that. But I also have chars who trivialise it with armour+evasion by taking virtually no damage at all through 99% of the game, ones that do it via regens, evasion acro coilers, builds doing it off evasion + es recharge, aegis spell blockers, all manner of shit. Everyone and their dog with a decent endgame build using any of the main forms of defense can trivialise non boss content right now.

Totem users for the most dont get any leech, your build doing something that no totem character can possibly do? Trappers? Miners? I feel that if you showed me a video of what content your build can do with vp we could go and find 20 non vp builds that could comfortably do the same thing. I feel like very few builds who survive purely off leech can type /deaths and come back with 0, until you start factoring in bv where you stop attack for a moment and you keep leeching, you get stunlocked and you keep leeching, you dc and you keep leeching because you have this endless cloud of leeching damage around you that hits so many times per second that theres no gaps to take significant damage between and crits so many times per second that pathfinders can keep up a flask thats just absurd and is allowing spell builds to reach god tier amounts of life return that they otherwise cannot even dream of achieving in a single target boss situation and to add to this theyre doing anywhere from double to 10x as much damage per second as any other regular spell build out there, out damaging even mirror level geared crit melee builds. Thats a problem, thats a build where you can go right now and drag 10 youtube examples of madness that other builds are simply not able to achieve, just standing in front of the highest damage encounters in the game and leeching through them by keeping up a single flask in a situation where a warlords aura would be subject to curse effectiveness against a boss and youd need to drop 40% of your damage to use a leech gem to find any other way to get any leech worth talking about.

If you take the flask out of the equation and balance bvs damage Im not seeing a big case for why they would need to do much to vp after that. Maybe Im wrong, im open to the idea that Im wrong but none of you have said or shown anything in this thread that has wavered that opinion so far.

If curses take a bit of a balance beating and curses + leech gem are the only way casters can leech, wanders have shit single targets anyway, bows do need some reduction in damage theyre ridiculous and Ive been saying that for an age now, then what? We are left with melee being the only ones having godly leech ability with extreme damage to single targets? So what then? Theres a big reason to go melee? Wouldnt that solve a pretty major issue the community has with melee right now? Or you could fuck vp and in doing so fuck a lot of melee builds using vp, and bv vinktars gets worse but is still the best thing out there by a country mile, what does that fix? If you try and balance the bv vink problem by attacking core mechanics it is using that are shared by a ton of other builds you wipe out those other builds long before youve nerfed hard enough for bv to even care at all about what you are doing.

If you tackle bv itself and the flask then you solve that build without rly hurting anyone else. That just leaves all those other vp builds that are ridiculously op compared to all the alternatives, if anyone can manage to actually give an example of those builds, if someone can prove they even exist then that would be a start. The idea of cutting down spike damage is nice when said in a general way but I dont rly know how realistic that is tbh, I can see them putting an effectiveness on vp, I rly dont see an end to spike damage coming any time soon, or ever tbh given all the monster scaling with map mods, Im not even certain it would make for a better game.

I mean, remember how Bill Gates said 640KB memory will be all that we need ?

sounds funny now, doesn't it ?


if you cant see that VP scales off your ratio of damage/leech and there will be such a ratio for which it will always be op, whereas as without VP there is no such thing, I'm not sure what to say.

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grepman wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

you cant do that without bv and vinktars, u can use the gloves to replace vp. Theres a ton of builds using vp who cant do this, the build that is doing this is vinktars bv, thats where the problem with this build is. Show me 1 million damage spellcasters who arnt bv, show me any caster doing this using vaal pact who doesnt also have vinktars and bv.

you arent getting it. come on snorkle.

Im comparing mechanics

mechanically this can happen because of VP and only because of VP (or acuities)- any such mechanics of instant leech

as you long as your leech %*N is bigger than your health pool M, you get all your hit points back

it was matter of time once we hit that N. again, if you do a billion damage, its possible

without an instant life leech mechanic, that is impossible. you will only leech 20% of your pool PER SECOND, no matter how many billion dps you have.

VP is the culprit, and the more damage/power creep goes up, the better it becomes.

kinda like why we are all using 64 bit systems now. turns out 32 bit words for address space werent enough for memory consumption we have nowadays. or 256 bit encryption. or ipv6. or WPA2 instead of WEP

things that seemed ok because they were unreachable before turned out to be not ok/not enough/or brute-forceable by computing power.

same way with poe and power creep. the amount of damage we can do to effectively get enough leech back to cover all our health is here.

mechanically the problem can only happen because of vinktars and bv too, question is does destroying vp or bv + vinktars result in less collateral damage?

show me where its a problem outside of that skill with that flask.