One of major problems of the game - life leech
" its a vinktars bv build, so hes doing at least twice as much damage as he should be because that skill has broken amounts of damage and then he has like 7x as much leech as he would without that broken flask on top of double the damage to leech from. If they fix bv and vinktars the problem goes away, none of you were saying any of this shit before those 2 things came together to make this sort of broken build possible. VP has been the way it is for a long, long time and its not been a problem, now all of a sudden its game breaking? I dont agree, this sort of build you posted is game breaking and its down to that flask and that skill gem. |
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" Do you agree that this is impossible to do without VP? Yes or no answer, please. If yes, then it's VP. Basically it says do enough damage and you'll leech through anything. If you deal a million damage and leech 1.5% instantly you get all your hit point pool back. You don't need 20% leech Care to answer how vinktars would do without Vp? Yeah VP been like it is for a while. Did you notice how much player power and free damage we've got in the past year alone? | |
" you cant do that without bv and vinktars, u can use the gloves to replace vp. Theres a ton of builds using vp who cant do this, the build that is doing this is vinktars bv, thats where the problem with this build is. Show me 1 million damage spellcasters who arnt bv, show me any caster doing this using vaal pact who doesnt also have vinktars and bv. |
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" VP has always been a problem, form the very beginning. Node's been moved all around the skill tree in attempt to restrict the access of ES builds. Had various reworks trying to make it useful for life based builds as well, but for obvious reasons it never worked. It is, and always has been, strictly an ES related node. VP on item was nerfed as well, for a reason. Currently, for unknown reasons, it's placed straight next to the ES classes and works at 100% effectiveness, in a difference of its initial state. Maybe ggg gave up. Its presence nullifies the basic concept of the ES sustain, makes investment in ES recharge nodes obsolete, thus the nodes themselves. It provides the ES builds immediate sustain at 100% effectiveness with no downsides. The natural ES recharge is just a sweet bonus, instead of priority. The issue is also paired with the power creep and all new gems stating "more". Damage skyrocketed, VP grew even more in power. It's quite obvious that if you combine ultra high damage, instant leech, no leech resistance/immunity, and very high HP pool, is imbalance what you get. Sustain in and out of combat, no need of secondary defenses. In a difference of previous times, nowadays player's damage is incomparably higher, ES on gear comes in greater numbers, damage of mobs is much lower. VP glues all these power creep fragments together, to form ridiculously powerful builds. Without it game would be just poorly balanced. With it, it's straight up broken. This is a buff © 2016 The Experts ™ 2017 Last edited by torturo on Oct 19, 2016, 6:17:48 AM
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" I dont agree because I think CI finds it very hard to get enough leech to really make it that powerful, until you bring vinktars into the equation. the talk on these forums for a long time has been how CI is fucked because leech is fucked for CI, and during all of that VP was exactly as it is now. How are casters getting leech outside of vinktars? Warlords mark, which is subject to curse effectiveness on bosses and lots of immunities via monster and map mods etc, and... ? What else? the life leech gem? If you use that you lose a 30-40% more damage support, hence people dont use it. Where else are they getting leech? 0.2% on a doryanis belt? Its trivial, until you bring in vinktars. Show me all these other op VP builds, all these arc, fireball, bladefall, ek, freeze pulse yada yada CI spellcasters who are facetanking Shaper and the like purely off the back off Vaal Pact with no vinktars or bladevortex in sight. Seriously, link me to them, show me how this node outside of this one broken skill combined with 1 broken flask is a widespread problem, cause Im not seeing it at all. What I am seeing is 1 build using 1 unique and thats all people have to point at when it comes to this VP is broken mantra that has sprung up over the last few months along with this CI is broken talk that runs completely contrary to what everyone has been saying for the year and a half previous. I think people have short memories and a warped sense of whats actually happening. I think youll find life builds are using vp, people are taking es recharge nodes, player damage hasnt really changed since everyone was saying CI is shit and cant sustain all of 5 minutes ago. VP was moved because access to leech was majorly changed, and there was a balance there that pushed hard against CI but has now been fucked by 1 broken unique flask combined with a broken spell. Even for melee, go and try a CI melee build that doesnt have a loath bane 500k dps and get enough leech to be facetank crazy without using bloodrage and watching ur es pool insanely degen. A lot of builds like that need VP to even notice they have any leech at all going on because theyve been completely fucked by not having access to the leech rates life builds get from vitality void etc. You want to butcher VP and in the process a ton of CI melee builds and all other manner of VP users going CI, life, hybrid, right across the spectrum that are not using vinktars and are not problem in order to fix 1 problematic build using 1 problematic flask. That skill gem is ridiculous and needs nerfed, so does that flask (again), and doing so doesnt come with a ton of collateral damage across the board like hard nerfing vp does. |
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people - mostly meta-following sheeple - talk a lot and rarely it makes sense
CI was, is and pretty much always has been THE BEST CHOICE due to instant leech - buffer + instant leech + damage > all. any game that allows for that has its entire gameplay gravitating towards reaching high enough buffer+damage+leech to ignore all other mechanics vinktar and BV are problems but do not try to play 'it is only local issue' card. it isnt. people are not using other tools because these are the best. noone trivializing content will play without Vinktars if he can play with it. it is just one flask slot with laughable downside (shock removal on other slot or immunity from gear/ascendancy). so to ask for other builds is playing strawman i know that people use ES recharge etc but these other options are STRICTLY inferior to The Sponge i play a ghetto wander right now, deal like 20k damage with my power siphon projectile (damage, not dps). it is not high damage. it is 2 auras + fast wand kind of damage. and even this laughable damage is enough to feel immortal after picking VP. i have 2% leech from the tree and .2 from gear. it is f.. enough to ignore pretty much anything dangerous (not facetank tho - facetanking just like openning beer with teeth is for 'special' people) there is nothing comparable to this with classic leech - you can stack this leech rate BS and life regen but all these are junk compared to one-click-full-health-instantly (and ofc reflect immunity to the point one can ignore this map mod). only comparable thing is Occultist Wile Ward + faster ES recharge start. this can also be absurdly strong. but VP (without Vinktars) is - again - stronger loosing 30% more damage from using life leech? damn, end of the world. it surely makes a terrific difference when one-click clearing thrash and is a small price to pay for extreme safety during these few fights that are actually dangerous. i really see nothing wrong with people at least thinking about using this gem in end-game. use it for risk free experience, take 30% more damage for risky experience. risk vs reward. whats wrong about that? you can complete these fights without instant leech. most likely you can. but it is just better to use it as it is the best tool available in the entire game. and vinktar plays no role in that Torturo above described the issue better than i could have ever done due to English being my 3rd language but to sum it up: instant leech makes entire swathes of mechanics useless and meaningless. only 3 things matter: buffer, damage, leech%. all this armor, evasion, block etc crap is meaningless - if one hit cannot kill you, then you will never die. it is that simple. CI builds could do that since i play this game. it was costly, true, but it was possible and people went great lengths to pick Vaal Pact when it was located in the melee area. instant leech FORCES designers to create 1shot encounters because nothing else will ever kill instant leechers. we all like BS deaths from 'overtuned' bosses? sad thing - these are not overtuned - it is game's last like of defence against The Sponge power creep is real. compare clear speed and damage output from fyndel mirrored wanders then and garbo-level Oro's flickerstrikers. 10c nowadays beats mirrors 2 years ago. in higher level content. if damage went up 10 times then it is 10 times as easy to leech full HP in one hit than previously. take a look at Life Gain on Hit gem - this is a benchmark of what values VP has been designed in mind. now you can easily leech 100 times as much per hit with VP. VP made sense 3 years ago with contemporary damage. it makes zero sense today if we had a tournament with 100.000 USD prize today, 1000 entry fee. 'how far XP you can get in 50 hours of playtime, start with lvl70 character to cut the leveling and some gear to kickoff. no vinktars/BV allowed' - do you expect anyone that sign up to play anything BUT instant leech CI? life builds? lol. it would be 99% participants playing instant leech CI - because it allows for reckless, stress free clears and can ignore all mods but 'no leech' and 'BM'. people are playing other things but this stuff is just BETTER than others. others are not an OPTION, are subpar choices taken 'for fun' or out of lack of knowledge | |
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People who abuse balance always protect what they abuse, so its pointless to discuss with them, especialy about obvious stuff like - VP being OP.
There is simple proof for that: - Atziri Acuity price - 20 ex + is equal to high demand, high power - the gloves offer nothing special except for VP, so you pay radiculous price for VP. - Vinktar - 1,5 ex lowest one, still high price comparing to other flasks, meaning it also got high demand due to its power - Vinktar with "Leech applies instantly during Flask effect" - +40 Ex to the price only for VP in it So yeah, lets discuss more with people that would pay 20-40 ex for statistic (VP) that is so bad as they state it is.. Last edited by herflik on Oct 19, 2016, 1:36:36 PM
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" https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1234566 theres the builds I currently keep around in standard, have a look and see how many of them use vaal pact, tl:dr out of 14 builds I use it on 3 of them, one of which is a blade vortex build, which Im saying should be nerfed. edit: and I will also add that the only one of those 3 builds thats actually a really powerful build is the bladevortex, and imo bladevortex should have its damage halved (this is a nerf) just as an opening move in an attempt to make it balanced. As I said, show me some vids, link me some builds, show me videos of vaal pact builds trivializing content that none vaal pact builds cant trivialize, I would genuinely like to see them. " Agreed, so whats wrong with that? Vinktars, thats why it needs nerfed. As to your other points, I used to go a long way for vaal pact on my ci dagger melee, eventually was forced to drop it so I took zealots. Its back in reach now, easier than ever, I still use zealots over vp on that build. I own accuities so i could have instant leech and zealots, but I dont bother because I dont feel like I rly need it on that build, Id rather have the attack speed and 200es from rare gloves. You have 2% leech from the tree, so how are you getting that as a ci wander? vit void? U going all the way down there for it? Id like to see a vid of you filling ur entire es pool with a single click against a single target boss, thats not a joke or a snarky remark thats honest would like to see it. I think vp and leech are a good defense but I dont think they are a game breaking best defense in the game, outside of bv total facetank anything when uve got a vinktars up, that really is a problem. Last edited by Snorkle_uk on Oct 19, 2016, 7:23:44 PM
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^^ whispering ice builds are using life leech + warlords mark to tank a lot of stuff that shouldnt really be tanked. If ggg were to change this i would love it if they could make more fights not so instant bullet time death (but i doubt they will).
I do agree though vinktars at 20% lightning leech stands out so strongly after all the nerfs to leech %. | |
" Vaal Pact is mechanic meaning if someone with a bit of brain know how to use it, he will abuse it. Additionaly I dont need to prove you what you ask for since economy of the game is proof by itself. With you totally ignored when quoting me, because thats simply to hard for you to counter. Economy from sites like poe.trade dont lie since it show statistic from massive pool of data. And you ask for minimal data pools (that are impossible to massivly check, maybe even by GGG itself) just to prove your own point. And small data amount create false assumptions. So yeah, try to explain everybody here why items that give nothing more than VP cost more than many (if not most) people totall gear worth. My own build can abuse VP pretty well if made it under VP. I dont see anyone use that build, not copy-pasted, my personal thing. I love insane burst damage builds, where even VP doesnt help me at all (I could oneshot myself with reflect dmg even if I had 6k+ HP). It isnt super vaible, since its risky as hell, but for me its fun to play. I could make it viable with VP by making few changes, but thats not my gameplay style. I never create gameplay style that game force me to do, I prefer my own one above all. Last edited by herflik on Oct 20, 2016, 11:57:53 AM
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