One of major problems of the game - life leech

seriously,

on an inquisitor with hege staff. no vaal pact. death to rare reflect : 1 - and it was my fault

yes, you can't run ele reflect maps. so what ? a RF build cant run no regen maps. so ? CI cant run blood magic maps. so ?

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grepman wrote:

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InAshesTheyShallReap wrote:

if you nerf vaal pact to like 40% instant leech, every attack build would die to rare reflects, and reflect maps will be impossible to do

if you nerf vaal pact, then remove reflect COMPLETELY from the game, or leave vaal pact as it is, it is very well balanced now.

reflect's original intent was to cap your damage output.

VP not only makes your damage your defense (instant leeching through shit), it also basically trivializes the only damage cap in the game.

oh yeah, VP isnt broken at all. it just helps you bypass shit you dont want to play around. brilliant.

like Ive said in this very thread. playing around reflect rares is perfectly possible - by slowing down, using different gems, different skills or simply ignoring them.

the fact that you don't want to do so doesn't justify instant leech (any form of instant leech, not just VP) being in game nowadays or being called 'NOT op'

ehhh what?
4 leech mods from jewels +1,2% leech from blood rage, 35%evasion 40%block 10,3k ES, what do you want more in terms of defence? and i repeat... my build is full physical to maximize the leech that turns into mega ultra defence with mirrored dagger, all gems lvl 21 i should leech 50k ES per second with vaal pact, no?, NO, the reality is that i leech 3-4k es at best PER second with vaal pact vs bosses even using lion's roar flask and atziri promise

if you say something else/the opposite, it means that you never played an attack build and dont know what you are saying.

vaal pact is balanced for attack builds, nerfing it would dramatically reduce the versatility of the game and builds, (everyone would die to reflect/reflect maps impossible/die to reflct in party even with defensive auras), if it's broken with spells, it means that the problem it's something else.

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grepman wrote:

seriously,

on an inquisitor with hege staff. no vaal pact. death to rare reflect : 1 - and it was my fault

yes, you can't run ele reflect maps. so what ? a RF build cant run no regen maps. so ? CI cant run blood magic maps. so ?

if someone doing ele dmg skips reflect maps, it's their choice, if someone doing phys dmg skips phys reflect maps, it's their choice, i am full phys and run double reflect vulnerability - res maps changing auras, gear, gems and flasks.

i would never ever do a build that can't run reflect maps, not being able to do them, to me it means that it's a bad build

there is a big difference in skipping a reflect map because you are lazy to do it and skipping it because it's impossible to do it no matter what items or strategy you use, nerfing vaal pact would make a double reflect map impossible to do

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grepman wrote:

a good design is preventing problems down the road. most of those computer limitations (year 2000, low bit encryption, etc) I used, were designs that were not good designs that looked far ahead. and it cost millions of dollars to fix those problems reactively and not proactively, all because of shitty design

well, slightly off topic, but in some ways it was good design right? From a certain point of view. Cost a lot of money to remake things with more capacity, and cost us a lot of money to buy those new versions, and that meant that those people got to keep their jobs for 20 years and keep selling us products rather than release 1 product 20 years ago and then join the unemployed que. So from their perspective the designs probably did exactly what they wanted them to, fulfilled a need for a limited period only.

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grepman wrote:

so Im asking you right now, what CI build (forget BV, Vinktars and so on) that does direct damage, is better off NOT taking VP ?

not only it is extremely amazing as a sustain mechanic, it also deals with reflect. its a panacea from a shitton of things.

which are these situations in which you would rather NOT take vaal pact as a CI toon who CAN leech ? please give examples

I dont use vp or acuities on this build

Occultist // Reave // CI + Aegis Block + Armour






I agree with ashes tbh, my experience of leech on ci attack builds since the leech changes are that its no walk in the park. I find it pretty damn hard to get enough leech to be effective. Ive even ditched the dagger and switched to a claw on builds just to be able to get enough leech % to even notice Im leeching anything at all even with vaal pact despite having 6 figure dps.

Given how strong bloodrage and frenzy charges are now, having no regen is horrible, non zo ci melee is at a significant disadvantage as a result, so are life builds who take vp. I feel like theres a legit tradeoff there. Theres people in my guild who go for vp and drop bloodrage, personally I dont use vp and keep bloodrage where possible, Ive seen people who use both and to me that looks sketchy becuae ur life is constantly draining out but its still a legit choice some people make. I see a balance there, you could go either which way on the choices depending on preference, until you bring vinktars on certain spell casters into the picture.

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InAshesTheyShallReap wrote:

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grepman wrote:

"

InAshesTheyShallReap wrote:

if you nerf vaal pact to like 40% instant leech, every attack build would die to rare reflects, and reflect maps will be impossible to do

if you nerf vaal pact, then remove reflect COMPLETELY from the game, or leave vaal pact as it is, it is very well balanced now.

reflect's original intent was to cap your damage output.

VP not only makes your damage your defense (instant leeching through shit), it also basically trivializes the only damage cap in the game.

oh yeah, VP isnt broken at all. it just helps you bypass shit you dont want to play around. brilliant.

like Ive said in this very thread. playing around reflect rares is perfectly possible - by slowing down, using different gems, different skills or simply ignoring them.

the fact that you don't want to do so doesn't justify instant leech (any form of instant leech, not just VP) being in game nowadays or being called 'NOT op'

ehhh what?
4 leech mods from jewels, 35%evasion 40%block 10,3k ES, what do you want more in terms of defence? and i repeat... my build is full physical to maximize the leech mega ultra defence with mirrored dagger, all gems lvl 21 i should leech 50k ES per second with vaal pact, but the reality is that i leech 3-4k es at best PER second with vaal pact vs bosses.

if you say something else/the opposite, it means that you never played an attack build and dont know what you are saying.

the fuck ? did you just read what I wrote or are you content arguing with yourself ? I said, VP trivializes both reflect (that is supposed to CAP your fucking dps) AND it makes your offense the main form of defense. oh and youre doing something very wrong to have a mirrored dagger and a pure phys build and leech only 3-4k es off bosses.

I said, PLAY AROUND REFLECT.

I never played an attack build ? lawl Im playing a pure ele melee build RIGHT NOW. seems like theres a penetration gem on your reading comprehension, remove it.



one chaining wild strike on a reflect rare and I might be dead. this is why Im using ancestral protector and leap slam (phys damage) against reflect packs

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InAshesTheyShallReap wrote:

i would never ever do a build that can't run reflect maps, not being able to do them, to me it means that it's a bad build

oh ok, so any CI build or RF build is a bad build. gotcha

I really couldnt care any less whether or not you think a build is bad or not if it cant do all and any mods. If you for some reason care about my opinion, I think any build that can do all mods and does not have an achilles heel should be looked at hard for a fucking nerf (hint hint poison builds). ideally every single. fucking. build has a mod or two or three it cant run. but hey, its like, my opinion.

as a matter of fact, how do you run no leech maps ? off your recovery ?

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there is a big difference in skipping a reflect map because you are lazy to do it and skipping it because it's impossible to do it no matter what items or strategy you use

again, CI cant do blood magic. RF cant do no regen and up til recently couldnt do any minus max. so ?

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nerfing vaal pact would make a double reflect map impossible to do

oh noes. so ?

VP shouldnt be nerfed because your preference somehow says any 'good' build should in your opinion do any map mods. the fuck ? is this even logic ?

one chaining wild strike on a reflect rare and I might be dead. this is why Im using ancestral protector and leap slam (phys damage) against reflect packs

i can do a reflect -15%res map with 115k hideout dps with wildstrike + phys to light gem and never go below 70%ES, defences works. and really, i added 4 leech mods from jewels to combat reflect rares and the change is insignificant.

anyway there is a big difference between phyisical and elemental reflect, ele reflect is a joke, physical reflect is 5 times harder than ele reflect

and i repeat that i leech 3-4k es at best vs bosses using vaal pact, 3% base physical leech and

if you want i can make a video, i can't facetank high gardens boss without vaal discipline.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

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grepman wrote:

a good design is preventing problems down the road. most of those computer limitations (year 2000, low bit encryption, etc) I used, were designs that were not good designs that looked far ahead. and it cost millions of dollars to fix those problems reactively and not proactively, all because of shitty design

well, slightly off topic, but in some ways it was good design right? From a certain point of view. Cost a lot of money to remake things with more capacity, and cost us a lot of money to buy those new versions, and that meant that those people got to keep their jobs for 20 years and keep selling us products rather than release 1 product 20 years ago and then join the unemployed que. So from their perspective the designs probably did exactly what they wanted them to, fulfilled a need for a limited period only.

no. thats like saying a good doctor is the one who milks you for money for 20 years after an organ failure, 'curing' you while he couldve prevented this said failure in the first year.

thats like saying engineers who made an error and did calculations on that shuttle that crashed and burned in the wrong metric system, had a good design because hey they had to build another rocket yeah ?

you really think promoting incompetence because it provided job security (I mean, what the hell ?) is like, a good thing ?

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I dont use vp or acuities on this build

Occultist // Reave // CI + Aegis Block + Armour

fair enough- I knew an aegis going to be brought up. the one 'tank' build that doesnt need leech. the one build that restores your ES INSTANTLY (and scales off block and armour) as well. any other builds in your mind ?

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I agree with ashes tbh, my experience of leech on ci attack builds since the leech changes are that its no walk in the park. I find it pretty damn hard to get enough leech to be effective. Ive even ditched the dagger and switched to a claw on builds just to be able to get enough leech % to even notice Im leeching anything at all even with vaal pact despite having 6 figure dps.

Given how strong bloodrage and frenzy charges are now, having no regen is horrible, non zo ci melee is at a significant disadvantage as a result, so are life builds who take vp. I feel like theres a legit tradeoff there. Theres people in my guild who go for vp and drop bloodrage, personally I dont use vp and keep bloodrage where possible, Ive seen people who use both and to me that looks sketchy becuae ur life is constantly draining out but its still a legit choice some people make. I see a balance there, you could go either which way on the choices depending on preference, until you bring vinktars on certain spell casters into the picture.

how much leech do you have ? you should have zero problems against any and all packs with 6 figure phys dps just off atziris promise. with bosses naturally you will have less leech but really, shoudlnt be anywhere as low as what he says. 3k es per SECOND of a boss with mirror level gear ? huh ?

my feedback is: i have insane physical damage with mirrored gear and my physical leech from bosses isn't enough to facetank them and i play with vaal pact, melee physical leech is well balanced.

i see builds with vinktar leeching 10 times me and we are both with vaal pact.

GGG will sort things out of this maelstrom and take the better decision as facetanking hardest bosses should not be possible

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InAshesTheyShallReap wrote:

anyway there is a big difference between phyisical and elemental reflect, ele reflect is a joke, physical reflect is 5 times harder than ele reflect
.

false, especially if one plays inquisitor. the reflect values are exactly the same. mobs have close to zero armour and they have zero res with inquisitor. also inq builds naturally cap crit so near every hit is a crit that ignores resistances. sure, you have ele resists yourself. that does fuck all against a hard crit

again, the only reason I posted my gear is that I do play an ele build, and I can get absolutely wrecked by reflect with no VP. and I play around it.

your build can do an ele reflect map with wild strike. awesome. now remove vaal pact and have cap crit with a decent multiplier. try it now. isnt that EXACTLY what we're talking about ? how vaal pact is retarded ?

or are you saying you can do wild strike -max, ele reflect map with a proverbial diamond shrine without vaal pact ? please do make a video if so.