Ok, it is time to stop this poe.trade silliness.

"

HellGauss wrote:

How do you handle the fact that I could ask a friend (or use a fake account) to put an 'insurance' on the item (i.e. a minimum bid) ?

Hmm. That's a very good question. Botters could easily insure their bids that way, circumventing my so-called fix. This pretty much scraps my idea.

Fuck. Back to the drawing board.

I guess my two-ish design options here would be:
1. Set a minimum cap on duration. I wanted to avoid this because high-volume items make up the bulk of tedious trade.
2. Add a "relist auction if not sold" checkbox. This would give any seller, including non-botters, the option to set what is essentially a buyout at 1 of a given currency. I'm against buyouts, but having them in a limited form is better than having them in a limited form which only malicious players can use.
3. Both of the above. This allows for a lower minimum duration than with just #1, and could encourage more bids of 2 currency or more for "underpriced" items than just #2.

Unless there's something I'm not seeing.

Edit: Using only a single currency for trade vs botting is kind of like relying on a single defensive mechanic - let's say only Armour - in PoE. The lack of redundancy means that if a single system fails, you die. It's much better to have a layered defense.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

Edit: Using only a single currency for trade vs botting is kind of like relying on a single defensive mechanic - let's say only Armour - in PoE. The lack of redundancy means that if a single system fails, you die. It's much better to have a layered defense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM996_jYe5E

"

3. Player interactions... haha!

We all know how much of a joke this is, so I won't even bother explaining this.

[Removed by support]

"

What I will tell is that because of how much hassle you have to go through with trading, trading anything with low value (probably around 1alch-1c) is almost impossible. People will list those and never respond, or don't even list at all, because it is not worth the time to trade with such small values.

making trade easier just further increase this problem because items became less and less valuable.

"

Because of that trading maps with mods that can be done by other build, but not yours, or trading maps to get your Atlas completed doesn't work.

Everyone can sell map he can't do and buy another map with 1 chaos orb. Just use orb on map.

"

Also, because higher tier maps are more expensive, you end up in a situation where buying low tier maps (again, new players) is almost impossible, while higher tier maps are available.

Drop rate for low level maps is very high. No need to buy them ever.

+1

Ragequit two times giveing awey around 3k worth of exalts, simple because 95% of my endgame experience was wasting time trying to trade..

Still waiting and hopeing for a prober trade system :/

1. Global auction house is bad as it's too easy to bot.
    As far players getting screwed on an item, this is no better or worse than eBay or
    other real auction sites, the buyer has to research prices to know if the seller is
    being fair or is trying to pull a fast one and shaft us with too high a price.
2. I agree that 3rd party trade sites are bad. For several reasons:
    a) They are not updated in real time quickly enough so status of seller is usually wrong.
    b) Since Playing to at least level 90 is a time consuming process, I feel the time to use
        the 3rd party sites is too time consuming. My limited playing time is best utilized
        playing PoE instead of playing the trade market (I play arpg, not trade simulator).
    c) Sellers are doing the same thing (playing PoE) and as such frequently do not respond
        to trade chat requests. This further adds to time wasting.
    d) I don't want to haggle no matter how importabt GGG thinks it is. Set a buyout price and
        I'll buy the item at that price or keep searching.
    e) Many items are not listed with a price just a contact seller. This usually means
        if I have to ask the price then I can't afford it. More time wasted.
    f) 3rd party trade sites could disappear and leave us high and dry (hasn't happend yet but...).
3. Again, no matter how important GGG feels player interaction should be, I (most) am not
    interested in 1 on 1 player interaction. The feeling is always "let's get this over as
    fast as possible" so I can get back to mob bashing, exile leveling, new builds, etc.

Going forward GGG has to be open to discuss the fact that trade chat as they originally envisioned it working has been, if not viewed as an outright failure, has definitely not worked very well and must be expanded to include some form of asynchronous trade mechanism where the seller has to list a buyout price, has the right to set a time limit on the item up for sale, can pull the item from the "for sale" stash tab whenever he/she wants, and then we can be allowed to enter the seller's hideout and buy the item by accessing a seller's trade window and that item will automatically be there to buy. The trade button will stay grayed out until we place the required currency to trade for the item. We won't need have to communicate with the seller at all which is the main reason trade chat and the 1 on 1 direct communication requirement is such a failure (seller never responds to a trade request). When the seller comes back to play PoE he/she will find a new remove only tab containing the currency that the item sold for. This could even go one step further by having an email sent to us to notify of a sale. GGG does not scrap out the 1 on 1 trade chat and bartering if the seller chooses not to list a buyout price and with a buyout price then we buy it without having to contact the seller.

Will GGG ever code this simple solution and end the current trade chat nightmare? I have no confidence in GGG at all so I say no. We all know GGG is keeping their heads in the sand and pretending that everything is rosy with PoE trading. At least they are ignoring us and losing a lot of players by turning their back on the problem. We need a solution very soon.

"

kamil1210 wrote:

"

3. Player interactions... haha!

We all know how much of a joke this is, so I won't even bother explaining this.

[Removed by support]

"

What I will tell is that because of how much hassle you have to go through with trading, trading anything with low value (probably around 1alch-1c) is almost impossible. People will list those and never respond, or don't even list at all, because it is not worth the time to trade with such small values.

1. making trade easier just further increase this problem because items became less and less valuable.

"

Because of that trading maps with mods that can be done by other build, but not yours, or trading maps to get your Atlas completed doesn't work.

2. Everyone can sell map he can't do and buy another map with 1 chaos orb. Just use orb on map.

"

Also, because higher tier maps are more expensive, you end up in a situation where buying low tier maps (again, new players) is almost impossible, while higher tier maps are available.

3. Drop rate for low level maps is very high. No need to buy them ever.

Resorting to personal insults says a lot about you - not me. So if I were you, I'd keep that [Removed by support] part for myself. :-)

1. Making trade easier will not further increase this problem, even if the value of those items decreases, because there is no longer need for player to be bothered with selling anything. Someone as educated as you should easily connect the dots, and know better. :P

2. Corrupted maps.

3. Atlas requires you to get CERTAIN maps, meaning that even low tier maps can sometimes be hard to get, which in turn means you would want to buy them.

"

SaiyanZ wrote:

Poe.trade is fine I think. The only annoying thing now is people not responding so we have to message several people to buy something. eg. Just tried to buy an item from 3 different people. Not cheap stuff too +50ex in pure exalts and I offered their b/o. I was overpaying as well since there are cheaper items for sale but the sellers are offline. No response so I said f**k it and ignored all three. So now I still don't have the item I need and have to wait for someone else to log in.

You say poe.trade is fine. Well, it is fine (but not great). For now. Imagine dude behind poe.trade one day packing his bags and taking it down. What will you, or GGG do? Back to trade chat none-sense?
poe.trade should have only been a temporary fix for trade's problems.

This is not only about poe.trade's functionality, but about PoE's integrity.
All the QoLs related to the inclusion of Trade House™ are an added bonus (which is VERY big added bonus).

"

Perq wrote:

You say poe.trade is fine. Well, it is fine (but not great). For now. Imagine dude behind poe.trade one day packing his bags and taking it down. What will you, or GGG do? Back to trade chat none-sense?

very simple: either the previously 'second best' alternative becomes the new 'nr one' (you know that there were other, similar 'startups'?), or a new implementation comes up (as long as the game stays that active and 'important', there will always be someone offering a 'solution'. And, even better: we now have a reference on what/how we "expect", and a much better documented API than at the beginning...)

What by no way means, poe.trade would be perfect, or that we all could not 'win' by a better into POE itself integrated system.

"

Mr_Cee wrote:

"

Perq wrote:

You say poe.trade is fine. Well, it is fine (but not great). For now. Imagine dude behind poe.trade one day packing his bags and taking it down. What will you, or GGG do? Back to trade chat none-sense?

very simple: either the previously 'second best' alternative becomes the new 'nr one' (you know that there were other, similar 'startups'?), or a new implementation comes up (as long as the game stays that active and 'important', there will always be someone offering a 'solution'. And, even better: we now have a reference on what/how we "expect", and a much better documented API than at the beginning...)

What by no way means, poe.trade would be perfect, or that we all could not 'win' by a better into POE itself integrated system.

What if there is no trade system for long enough, ruining first month of the new league, which in turns ruins GGG's budget (player experience aside)?

Not sure if GGG should be leaving elements as important as trade to maybe someone will take care of it.

Because it's so important, someone will definitely take care of it. Quickly.