Ok, it is time to stop this poe.trade silliness.

I'm one of the people that actually make money selling non OP items as well. Why? Because as someone already stated: I'm the only person that answers when they ring the phone. That's good business.

I have people thanking me all the time for "prompt" trades. Guess what? In RL it works the same way.

On the other hand, I agree w/OP on some points. The trading system is very difficult for n00bs to navigate and that can't be good for the game.

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Perq wrote:

3. Player interactions... haha!

We all know how much of a joke this is, so I won't even bother explaining this. What I will tell is that because of how much hassle you have to go through with trading, trading anything with low value (probably around 1alch-1c) is almost impossible. People will list those and never respond, or don't even list at all, because it is not worth the time to trade with such small values.
Because of that trading maps with mods that can be done by other build, but not yours, or trading maps to get your Atlas completed doesn't work.
Also, because higher tier maps are more expensive, you end up in a situation where buying low tier maps (again, new players) is almost impossible, while higher tier maps are available.

Discuss. I'm pretty tired with poe.trade. :(

Which gave me a great Idea:

Having an auction house with the min price of 1 alch and max price of 5c would do no harm to the economy of rare items but help to lower time consumption of trading low value goods and increase their accessability.

I agree with author of this topic. PoE need off-line trade system and forced buyouts to get rid of scammers. All items for sale should be open for sale 24/7 by visit npc in hideout.
That will help sell low value stuff, and makes sells during lab runs. Poe.trade should be part of GGG company and well announced for all.

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goetzjam wrote:

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Maswasnos wrote:

It's definitely time for a real trading interface. Poe.trade was great when the game was just getting started, but at this point we need a real solution.

I'm really tired of PM-ing people for items only to find that they're:
A)offline
B)AFK or DND
C)not selling the item anymore (it sold or whatever)
D)just going to ignore me (they're busy doing something else usually)

Why can't I just click "buy" and have the item in my stash?

Also, the fact that you can't trade while you're in the labyrinth (without ending your run) is pretty stupid.

a) the only way this happens is if they use acquisition
b) can be fixed by having an actual api that pulls the in game information as far as palyer status, add another option to report to the api, where its online, then have one where afk is an option or have afk report offline too.

\dnd should list you offline on poe.trade
c) they either lie or its an API issue
d) /whois and figure out, sometimes its market manipulation, just move on to next item

"

1. Oh noes chinese botters will buy out things and resell them instantly! (That only happened in D3 because there was a uniform currency, PoE has no such problem)


2. Butz people will then get to endgame faster! (If PoE has true build diversity this isn't a problem, people will just reroll another character to farm with, look at D2; it had no endgame forever and was still highly successful for this very reason)


3. But tradingz is a pvp skill! (Right, because being an asshole that scams people essentially in an unregulated environment should be the type of behavior that is reinforced by the game developers. This would be fine if GGG allowed the community to enforce blacklist rules of their own, however GGG has shown to help scammers unban themselves from blacklists by getting name changes).

1) yeah chaos totally isn't a standard currency

2) 3rd party doesn't matter, its what you do with it, if GGG can do more by implementing the existing system into their website, sure, but porting a website interface inside the game is relatively pointless and we don't need a click to buy system. You can get all the items you need without it and it puts stress on players to be involved in the selling process, which IS IMPORTANT. Making that big sell and getting the currency is very nice, even making multiple smaller sells is nice, collecting money via a method that just involves "listing" an item is not enjoyable. Part of finding the loot is selling the loot, a click to buy system removes the burden of the player to actually sell.

3) People joke about player interaction, I've had many times when I find or see something that i would not have otherwise saw. Like a 4 beserker class party, where I popped some fireworks in celebration of a relatively underplayed class. I've seen other mtx's that i dont have that I might need to get. I've see interesting builds or unique item art that got my attention, but hey lets dismiss this factor because you don't enjoy it.

In what world would GGG ever remove (or reduce) player interaction given the fact that the whole idea around a free to play online ARPG game that sells MTXs means players want to have other players see there shit.

"

I back you up 100% i am so tired of poe.trade and GGG in general... GGG spend so much crap atm on stuff that is not needed instead of making that freaking trade interface or whatever they can make to make trade fast and easy.

This is what it boils down too, even people that don't want click to buy get frustrated with stuff like the not actually online thing, afk ect. Those are things that can be improved upon from an API level, but frustration has lead to just replace the system, despite it being a solid foundation to build upon instead.

Mmmm goetzjam defending GGG to the bitter end. I seriously wonder if you're Chris Wilson in disguise at times.


1) No one uses chaos exclusively. Some people do take other forms of currency, as such it's not always a standard be all end all trading currency. Some people trade in Exalts, Regals, Alts, Chromatics, Fusings, etc. depending on what they are trying to accomplish. Although a good portion of the population uses Chaos/Exalts, people do take other forms of currency. That's why automated trade systems wouldn't be so easily sniped by bots, as not every single person is under the same type of currency.

2) You still haven't addressed the fact that making trading easier would do nothing more than get people to reroll more characters. That's actually a good thing. Nor have you addressed the fact that GGG has circumvented community led efforts to blacklist players since they are complete assholes.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Works both ways; people who love trading shouldn't be forced to farm.

hate to rain on your parade, but this is HnS game. Farming is essential part of this genre. If you do not like farming, maybe you've should play some other game.

And yes, I would prefer some in-game interface for trading. I prefer to sell for some less currency, than not sell at all because of all hassle.
Your idea for a trade system is not bad though.

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allbusiness wrote:

Mmmm goetzjam defending GGG to the bitter end. I seriously wonder if you're Chris Wilson in disguise at times.


1) No one uses chaos exclusively. Some people do take other forms of currency, as such it's not always a standard be all end all trading currency. Some people trade in Exalts, Regals, Alts, Chromatics, Fusings, etc. depending on what they are trying to accomplish. Although a good portion of the population uses Chaos/Exalts, people do take other forms of currency. That's why automated trade systems wouldn't be so easily sniped by bots, as not every single person is under the same type of currency.

2) You still haven't addressed the fact that making trading easier would do nothing more than get people to reroll more characters. That's actually a good thing. Nor have you addressed the fact that GGG has circumvented community led efforts to blacklist players since they are complete assholes.

First, I'm not Chris, I don't think he has time to post on alt accounts to defend the game. I don't think he cares to post to defend the game. Defending a system that needs improvements instead of a rework is just defending GGG now?

I mean I bitch about quite a lot of things, but I'm also not one to cry about things you, as a player can fix or deal with relatively easy, that isn't to say the devs have no work left to do to improve this experience, but automation is NOT the answer.



1) Try to buy any item in the game with chaos, chances are you can, even in the hardcore league now stuff is priced in chaos instead of exalts. You MIGHT have a problem trying to buy like a shavs with chaos in the SC league, but tack on a couple of extra chaos and chances are they will sell it to you for that price. Furthermore, because currency is well currency, the seller can "set" the ratio in which they would accept for other currency. So if someone list a shavs for 8ex, they might also take 520 chaos, such a system might initially be harder to setup, but still possible and expected change in your so called "dream scenario"

A) Are you really suggesting that you couldn't program a bot to accept various alternative forms of currency to buy items? That suggestion shows how naive some people are.


2) Trading doesn't need to be easier, its already far easier then the original and intended design of the game. Part of what makes ARPG games good is finding sick loot, click to buy removes all incentive to use upgrades you find yourself, because 99.99% of the time you could just buy an upgrade for 1 chaos. The "option" to not trade is always there, but players in general will have a worst experience overall because they will just slap some 1c in every slot gear on, level to 85, never do any good content and just reroll. This is what I'd like to call the traditional "shit player" that starts off and has no idea how to push a character further, just to ADD to finish anything before moving on. Not only does click to buy remove incentive to find loot yourself, it removes the whole idea you actually need to "work" to sell that item you found. You shouldn't inherently be rewarded just because you found an item, if you are too lazy now to spend time to sell that item, why should you somehow earn currency over someone that is now currently spending the time to sell items?

A) I'm assuming that you mean they will transfer over stuff to a new account for them? I mean its part of the game, being "blacklisted" because someone posted your account name on reddit (which is indeed against the TOS both here on the forums and on reddit, fucking hipocrits....) isn't the way to "get back" at these people. The way to get back is simply ignore them, if you and everyone else does they wouldn't even bother, but nope you give the trolls the attention so they keep coming back for more. TBH this whole manipulation thing only happened about a year or so again with the change of a more "casual" game from GGG.

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- Cross league delivery system. As in, if I'm playing ESC and wanna do a trade in Standard, I can just have a designated Tab to store currencies from trades but carry it out while still in temp league.

Well I doubt that is possible, cross instance might be, but cross league is propably a bit harder.

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- API adjusted so that if /dnd is on, off of the trade API

- API adjusted so that afk players are off of the trade API

- API adjusted so that online statuses cannot be altered by 3rd party sites or links

The first two should be doable, and the last one is entirely up to the 3rd party sides. They should have an interest to only allow actually avaible people to be shown if I want to.

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Nishrek wrote:

Your idea for a trade system is not bad though.

Thanks, but I realized I need to amend it. I'll repost the whole thing so things are clear.

Here's what I'd like to see for an in-game trade system:
1. Seller picks a single item to sell (or single stack of stackables), chooses a currency type for bids, and chooses a time for the listing to end. The listing duration can be any length, even past league duration; listings move to parent league at league's end. The item on sale remains in the seller's stash/inventory but is "red out" and cannot be moved; mouse hover reminds player of duration remaining. Multiple listings with the same currency choice and end time can be submitted simultaneously within the UI.
2. Buyers can bid on items, in terms of the currency seller chose (minimum 1). Much like trading now, currency stacks must be separated to bid less than a full stack. They can search by item mods and sort by end time, but cannot view current bids (silent auction), not even winning bids of previous auctions. Bids are kept in bidder's stash/inventory but "red out" and cannot be moved until auction ends; mouse hover reminds player of duration remaining.
3. When auction ends, the highest bid is given to seller, highest bidder gets item, all other bids released. If there is a tie, the oldest bid wins. If there are no bids, the seller receives currency exactly as if the item was vendored. If the item(s) gained use(s) more stash/inventory space than the item lost, it appears in a remove-only tab.

The major change is in bold. I realized this was necessary to prevent bots from relisting items every 5 minutes or so, essentially creating buyouts of one currency item (1c, 1ex, etc). This means the duration choice for the seller is particularly crucial.

Because of this, such a Silent Auction House wouldn't be used for the highest-end items; the risk of loss is too great. So there'd still be Trade Chat and Trade Forums to move the big ticket stuff. However, I think we all know the bulk of stuff offered for trade is just a tier or two above vendor fodder, and this system would help with that. That's why I added the part in italics.

They need something like an ingame version of it at the noticeboards.

And to me, the most annoying thing about trading currently is having to meet at hideouts/towns. Half the time I crash because their hideout is full of shit.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

If there are no bids, the seller receives currency exactly as if the item was vendored.

Your whole proposal reminds me a model of mine :)

How do you handle the fact that I could ask a friend (or use a fake account) to put an 'insurance' on the item (i.e. a minimum bid) ?

I would add 'Each transfered orb using this global interface has a 10-20% chance to be lost". Or maybe "you can bid only multiple of 5-10 orbs: one of them does not go to the seller" if you hate RNG.

Now i would ask:

what does change if I use a 'standard currency' for that?