Ok, it is time to stop this poe.trade silliness.
|
Fuck trade.
Dys an sohm
Rohs an kyn Sahl djahs afah Mah morn narr |
|
" nope. in the bots model, the buyer files a request for an item, the seller can offer his item for the currency offered or not. no buyouts shows real demand for items no market manipulation could be added alongside the current trading system your examples were seller oriented. and it's compatible for selling rare items, the specification the buyer gives can be seen as a minimum of stats that he wants. -- imho we had the discussion already in one of the countless "auction house plox" threads. age and treachery will triumph over youth and skill!
| |
"To be clear, the "buyer" agent should be no less robust in terms of specifying item stats than a current poe.trade search. Therefore, I don't see how it would be bad for rare or unique items. I might need to work on the automated "agent matchmaking" system under my suggestion, but I think the core idea is good. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Oct 13, 2016, 10:51:45 AM
|
|
"here's the point: Pricing responsibility is not given to BOTH parties under your suggestion. You'd have buyer determine price while sellers cannot influence prices at all, but can only passively accept, yes or no, the options before them. That's not any better than buyouts; it's the same problem with the parties flipped. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Oct 13, 2016, 10:50:49 AM
|
|
" yes, it's the whole thing reversed. but has the (let's call it) buyoff price from bots the same disadvantages as the current buyout price ggg so dislikes? what's the disadvantage of buyout prices in the first place? ==> item price inflation for endgame items, item price deflation for the rest in the long run. --- the buyoff price from bots would solve both issues: players who find a wanderlust and see no buyoff request for it will vendor the item, effectively reducing the amount of low level items and so keeping their price up. at the same time the price of endgame items would be kept low because people will not immediately place requests for kaoms heart with multiple exalts attached, they will offer the currency in steps until some seller is found. this effectively removes high buyout prices for endgame items. --- the catch: players will state their expected price elsewhere, especially if the current trading system is still in place. but still... age and treachery will triumph over youth and skill!
| |
" The argument is, let me spell it out for you again, is if an autobuyout is implemented, marker manipulation will be magnitudes higher. What is now done manually will be done easily automatically. Sniping and bulk price fixing will be a thing. Right now, trading bots are at a disadvantage-time and convenience and unpredictability of the seller. With one button buyout you bypass all those barriers. " Your logic makes no sense. I said, autobuyout will bring market bots that will make today's price manipulations seem like child's play. You said bu bu but we will limit the bots. I said, no not really you won't be able to limit the trade bots. You say, but we have farm bots now, so that's OK. Wait what? Logic called, it wants to meet you. We don't have market bots now, they are behind the wall of inconvenience that is easily bypassed with auto buyouts "again, the more you try to limit bots, the less simpler it will get. Also If I want 10 items right now, I will have to complete 10 mini games? " If the bans are not automatic, they're pointless. After X bulk transactions I can launder my currency to other accounts. Your point is silly. After I present easy counterarguments to your theoretical attempts to limit trade bots, you scream how there are bots now. Um so? They aren't trade bots and I'm not the one who tries to present arguments that limiting them works. My point is simple - no autobuyout, no trade bots, no pain I dealing with them " Garena russia players, for example, read their tos in Russian. So at minimum you have to localize all the 'bot catchers'. " You're again failing to read my post. I talked about autobuyouts specifically and nothing aside from that. I'm anti autobuyout in any multi-player game. I then talked how your solution against bots is like a slap on the wrist, while making trading more incovenient for the 'average player', which goes against the goal in the first place. |
|
|
I've re-reviewed vio's BOTS suggestion and, although I have two strong criticisms
1. it absolutely should NOT be standalone without a mirroring seller-focused buyout system, and 2. I loathe the name he gave it :p ... Despite those issues, it's actually a very solid idea which I was wrong to dismiss so easily. The core issue with buyouts is that it gives the initiator of the listing itself sole pricing responsibility. Haggling is not feasible, because depending on offline sellers logging in ever again, much less still caring once they do, is a fool's errand. Depending on skill level, that monopoly on or lack of pricing responsibility can be a great benefit or a frustating hindrance. In any case, the lack of pricing responsibility for one side of the transaction means skill for that side is thrown out the window, and their experience instead becomes solely dependent on the other side's skill. However, vio's suggestion, when used IN CONJUNCTION WITH the typical seller-initiated buyout model, is: 1. buyers can accept current seller listings for immediate transaction OR create their own automated listing (similar to a poe.trade search with an offer attached) if the item they want is unavailable or they want a lower price, then wait until an automatic transaction hopefully occurs, perhaps occurring while they're offline 2. sellers can accept current buyer listings for immediate transaction OR create their own automated listing if no one currently wants their item or they want a higher price, then wait until an automatic transaction hopefully occurs, perhaps occurring while they're offline Obviously, the "OR" should be enforced. The interface shouldn't allow the creation of a buyer listing which matches the criteria of active seller listings, or vice versa. In this way, automated buyouts can be implemented denying neither buyer nor seller of pricing responsibility. No one needs passively accept market conditions, there's always a chance to buy even lower or sell even higher, because BOTH sides can list. I've been a fan of concealing prices from bidders in previous suggestions... to avoid creating situations which are practically buyouts. None of that would be necessary here. Some people are concerned about botters dominating flipping. Under this model, everyone has legitimized access to bots. (Pun intended, vio?) Essentially, I was misinterpreting my own analysis. Yes, vio's suggestion is the exact mirror of buyouts, with the parties swapped. That's why, by itself, it's no better than a buyout system. But that's also why it's exactly the counterbalance a buyout system needs to prevent one-sided skill intensity. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Oct 13, 2016, 10:51:30 PM
|
|
|
I've long been in support of a new section of the Notice Board that allows you to simply link up things you are selling with a reasonable search system. People click an item they like, it auto links in a whisper to you, and then you can negotiate price. If you log out, your sell tab disappears. Optionally, you can apply buyout prices. You MUST meet face to face to complete the trade, however.
Comparable to linking gear to the forums, you'd simply add from your stash tab what you wish to sell. For currency, you would choose how much of any given currency you want to sell out of how much is in your stash up to your max so people see how much you are offering (so if you post say 50 jewelers and someone only wants 10 they offer you for 10). You would name your tab, save it, and post it. Players can apply search criteria, so if you post up rings and someone searches "Rings" your tab would be included in their results. If they searched "Rings" and ">=50 Life" and you had no rings offering at least 50 max HP (innate + affix if applicable) your tab would NOT show. I cannot stand trading in this game thanks to the inane spammy nature of trade channels and it's quite aggravating as I can't sell decent leveling gear I've out grown with how spammed up it is with uniques and 6links and super powered rares and so on, let alone get any hope of figuring out what constitutes good prices. Seriously, the crappy trade system is part of the reason I quit playing and part of the reason I've never invested in extra tabs because it'll just be another cluttered mess I'll never trade away. |
|
" To be fair, both ideas are good enough to be implemented, but vio's is a little better in terms of... convince? It is pretty much reversed AH. :P A Request House, more like. :D Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. Last edited by Perq#4049 on Oct 14, 2016, 1:24:31 AM
| |
" there are several problems with it though, the biggest being: - people are used to be able to select from a variety of offers, especially if they don't have an idea of what they want (can be solved by leaving poe.trade running) - if poe.trade keeps running, there will be people running scripts to match request and offers, immediately satisfying all requests because the real demand for items is always lower than the amount of offers - ggg has a strong interest to hide real demand for items so the market seems working, if people currently don't sell stuff they mostly assume being too expensive instead of demand being low or gone completely - bots is too efficient when it comes to serving the main function of market: exchanging items for the minimal price both parties agree on. the current system allows for people with knowledge to make quite good deals by doing clever searches and/or using the poe.trade bot to snipe special offers age and treachery will triumph over youth and skill!
|
