Archers OFFICIALLY the worst endgame class in PoE 2.4

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sidtherat wrote:

why archers are expected to be absolutelly best at everything?

They could just be used to it ...

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allbusiness wrote:

You're talking to someone who plays melee in HC, like I don't know any of the shit that you make up or something.

Melee is better at one thing, and that is absorbing damage. No matter how you build your Ranger/Shadow, you will never come close to the EHP of a Marauder/Duelist on the left side of the tree. Ever. And with the new bosses in place, you pretty much have to absorb damage at some point.

There are such things as melee rangers and shadows btw. Try building dual strike on your EHC shadow/ranger and get back to me about how your archer is the "worst endgame class in poe".

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Legatus1982 wrote:

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allbusiness wrote:

You're talking to someone who plays melee in HC, like I don't know any of the shit that you make up or something.

Melee is better at one thing, and that is absorbing damage. No matter how you build your Ranger/Shadow, you will never come close to the EHP of a Marauder/Duelist on the left side of the tree. Ever. And with the new bosses in place, you pretty much have to absorb damage at some point.

There are such things as melee rangers and shadows btw. Try building dual strike on your EHC shadow/ranger and get back to me about how your archer is the "worst endgame class in poe".

Yeah people sadly often forget that Melees can use the right side as well. But well making archers the worst class is stupid in the first place... because they aren't. First the right class you are looking for is the Assassin, he is the guy with the Doube Chaos Damage on Crit, the actual Archer Ascendancy doesn't give a shit... or just a very small one. And even the Assassin hardly relies on Poison, they just kill things, who cares about Poison.

The biggest disatvantage is that it disables Poison or Bleeding based Ascendancies/Supports like Bloodlust or basically half of the Gladiator Tree. And guess who get hurt by that most? Melees and Gladiators... or even worse Melee Gladiators. Yes the Deadeye has one Bleeding based Ascendancy which provides him with some benefits hitting on Bleeding Enemies but that is far from what Bloodlust gives.

It might ruin some Trappers/Miners but that's it. A ranger throws arrows at his target and thats what is supposed to kill them. Yes Puncturing enemies and running away was a reliable option, but it isn't necessary due to how much fronstloaded damage Archers are able to do now.

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Legatus1982 wrote:

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allbusiness wrote:

You're talking to someone who plays melee in HC, like I don't know any of the shit that you make up or something.

Melee is better at one thing, and that is absorbing damage. No matter how you build your Ranger/Shadow, you will never come close to the EHP of a Marauder/Duelist on the left side of the tree. Ever. And with the new bosses in place, you pretty much have to absorb damage at some point.

There are such things as melee rangers and shadows btw. Try building dual strike on your EHC shadow/ranger and get back to me about how your archer is the "worst endgame class in poe".

Talking about the builds that are Shaper Viable without insane amount of currency. Flameblast Totems, Warchief Totems, Bladevortex, etc. can pretty much faceroll all the way to Shaper with little to no currency, except maybe BV which needs a few flasks to really make it easy. Bow characters need a substantially good bow to fight the Chimera/Hydra/Shaper and need to invest heavily on their tree and other parts of their gear to survive, and even then they still can't do it as safely as the other classes.


Immunities is just a lazy ass way of dealing with Archer imbalance. I'm not saying that prior to this they weren't broken, but it's silly to introduce something specifically to counter one particular playstyle, when like the other 99% of the game is auto faceroll for Archers. What they should do is tone down the amount of damage things like Tornado, LA, Blastrain, and Barrage does or at least reduce the amount of crit damage/crit strike chance Archers can get, while granting Archers other forms of defense other than just Evasion/Dodge/HP Stacking (which would in turn also help out Melee Evasion which desperately needs a buff anyways).

I mean I understand what you're trying to say I guess but writing that "melee is better at absorbing damage" is a factually false statement. Currently in poe every class can get every defensive buff that the others get, until that changes this statement is and will continue to remain false.

If you're going to arbitrarily pick out 4 top builds and say one is tankier than the other, well you're missing the entire point of a balance discussion then. I bring this up because I've been playing shadow as melee almost exclusively since beta, and it's been ABSOLUTE DONKEY SHIT. It has NEVER at any time, even for one second, been any good at all. From my point of view, up until the point that they introduced the trickster ascendancy shadow melee was completely non-viable.

Excepting CI melee, which shadow is pretty good at, but good luck building that without rolling another character first in HC. And really, I don't feel too thrilled about CI melee anyways, seems like those builds are always dying to some one-shot damage from a modded bear or giant skeleton. The melee hybrid tricksters are pretty tanky now, but the damage on those builds is donkey balls.

So please, do carry on about how bad rangers are. Years of being SHIT ON by ggg and I'm supposed to listen to people whining about bows.

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From my point of view, up until the point that they introduced the trickster ascendancy shadow melee was completely non-viable.

they were PERFECTLY viable before Ascendancies. ive made a pre-trickster life/es hybrid just to prove that. trickster is just a bonus on top of already well crafterd character. it wont make badly made one shine.

it is just that with Ascendancy people suddenly realized that the bs they were fed by streamers and loudmouths is not entirely true. 'hybrid sux' is a long time meme around talkative players but it is just bs. and this bs is repeated by others without actually trying this out

I think the part about archers being in trouble is completely irrelevant.
What is a problem, though, is immunity in any form.

What about Caustic Arrow? It's not poison, so does it do damage against poison immune bosses?

this thread a joke, those saying archers have less defenses than melee are a joke.
You get dodge on tree for like 10 point almost at start of the tree, you get vaal pact possibility, you get Ms and tons of attack speed. You get classes like pathfinder with 10 sec flask auto recharges on crit or every 3 sec giving you almost 75/75 block chance with rumi and other items. You get blink/mirror arrow skills and opi choice of unique bows or playstyles.

Archer users EA build can get easy 8k life with 50/50dodge and full block if pathfinders and a skill clearing quickers than any melee could do.

You can cheese content using +3bow and caustic, you can just run away when in danger and offscreen anything with skills like crit ts. You are a 2h classes but can use quivers when 2h melee only have their swords and balls to fight.

Stop drinking please.

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sidtherat wrote:

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From my point of view, up until the point that they introduced the trickster ascendancy shadow melee was completely non-viable.

they were PERFECTLY viable before Ascendancies. ive made a pre-trickster life/es hybrid just to prove that. trickster is just a bonus on top of already well crafterd character. it wont make badly made one shine.

it is just that with Ascendancy people suddenly realized that the bs they were fed by streamers and loudmouths is not entirely true. 'hybrid sux' is a long time meme around talkative players but it is just bs. and this bs is repeated by others without actually trying this out

Viable where? In lol-cast-on-death-standard? Not in the HC I played. I've done tons of hybrid builds and none of them were as good as the single-defense builds I made. There are simple mechanic problems making hybrid builds not efficient and I've been over these at length before. Any hybrid build you make until the point trickster appeared would have been tankier as a single-type. Hell, even WITH trickster you're still better off focusing one or the other. So no, I'm not going to be able to agree with you on this one.
As an example I'd like you to show me your "perfectly rolled" hybrid gear, from any slot, and I'll be happy to explain to you why it's bad.

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Mikrotherion wrote:

I think the part about archers being in trouble is completely irrelevant.
What is a problem, though, is immunity in any form.

What about Caustic Arrow? It's not poison, so does it do damage against poison immune bosses?

Agreed, although I think immunity would be an OK mod on regular rare mobs, just not on act bosses or map bosses.

It was over 10 days into the new content and our friends from Standard and Essence league have got to try out new bosses!

Funny fact :

- there are no videos of archers doing any new boss
- there is ONLY ONE BOW SKILL WHICH KILLED SHAPER*. And it was.. "Explosive Arrow" (for me its not a true bow/archer like skill)

Yey for archers - people actually know they are complete utter shit for the new content... Nay sayers : there are 5 videos of melee doing shaper and 0 of an archer / yea you totally know how the fuck the game is balanced at the moment.

GJ GGG...




* at least the only one i have seen a screeshot with confirmation showing shaper item