Archers OFFICIALLY the worst endgame class in PoE 2.4

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Fruz wrote:

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Head_Less wrote:

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allbusiness wrote:

And outside of Vaal Pact/Dodge/Evasion all the rest of those are available to any other class that can also get a much bigger HP pool then you can.

hahaha you so funny!

what s that behind your back? this thing called "quiver "?

you know this item you can add life/res/ get block and spell block on it?

Yea that s right that s something fucking 2h melee can t get and guess what if you were smart enough to take life quivers instead of fucking crit chance ones you would have more life as a ranger than a 2h melee.

You would need to go mostly on the left part of the tree for that .....

So what's the problem there exactly?
If i want to build a melee crit character I have to go to the right part of the tree for assassin nodes or crit sword nodes.

Also jewels can each give a 7% life roll, seeing as you can get at least 3/4 that is 21-28% life you can get on the right side of the tree extra, but no one ever does it because "muh dps".

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allbusiness wrote:

And outside of Vaal Pact/Dodge/Evasion all the rest of those are available to any other class that can also get a much bigger HP pool then you can.

Melees dont have "much higher HP pool". They have fortify, and in case of str-based melee - endurance charges and armour. Fortify, endurance charges and armour are 3 reasons, why melee is tankier.
Pick Champion class, make str-based archer with 7 endurance charges - and he will have the same tankiness as melee.
And you claim "right side of the tree dont have bow nodes" - this is a pure lie! You can convert very powerful staff and melee crit nodes into bow, with certain gem. And you can even get all "normal" crit bow nodes from dex side!

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Mannoth wrote:

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allbusiness wrote:

And outside of Vaal Pact/Dodge/Evasion all the rest of those are available to any other class that can also get a much bigger HP pool then you can.

Much bigger HP pool?
Don't be ridicolous, I am going to hit 6k life without wearing a Belly of the Beast or Kaom's Heart, with a Kaom's id have 7k+ life.
Melee builds don't have "much" bigger HP pool, if they go for kaoms that means they went for a 2h build without access to block and if they go without kaom they usually tap out at 6.5~7k life (most never even reach this number).

Also melee builds need to have at least some higher life numbers because they are freaking melee... they can't kite and offscreen like archers can.

Then your build is awful because my ROTC Kaoms Archer had 7k hp, and I took minimal HP nodes because I was picking up significant amounts of damage. Any decent 2H Kaoms build is gonna break 8k+ easily, and likely when min-maxed hit 10k non-legacy. You should be breaking 200% HP on an Archer in HC let alone on a 2H melee char which should be much closer to 270-280%.


Look, you can't say Evasion Archers have the same HP as the left side of the tree, because that is just factually false.

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allbusiness wrote:

Then your build is awful because my ROTC Kaoms Archer had 7k hp, and I took minimal HP nodes because I was picking up significant amounts of damage. Any decent 2H Kaoms build is gonna break 8k+ easily, and likely when min-maxed hit 10k non-legacy. You should be breaking 200% HP on an Archer in HC let alone on a 2H melee char which should be much closer to 270-280%.


Look, you can't say Evasion Archers have the same HP as the left side of the tree, because that is just factually false.

Dude I said a build WITHOUT Kaom's hits 6.5-7k life as melee, my archer will hit 6k life WITHOUT kaom's heart also.

And you said it yourself you picked up significant amounts of damage and put minimal points into life and still ended up with 7k life as a ranged character.

What would you like, invest into no life at all and get 10k life on the right side of the tree?
Archers aren't supposed to get 10k life, nor is it needed for playing an archer.
Even with a 250% life increase a Kaom's Heart will only give you 1400 more life compared to a 100 life rare chest, even less versus a belly. So that means that to hit 10k life you need a build that reaches like 8k life without Kaom's Heart.
Legacy Kaom's is not really a thing to discuss, because it is legacy...

And if you don't want to branch out for life nodes because it hurts your DPS then there is no point in this thread, you have to compromise on DPS if you want life, melee builds have to branch out to get life also and have to branch out if they want crit.

I am really sorry but archers can't have their cake and eat it too.

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Mannoth wrote:

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allbusiness wrote:

Then your build is awful because my ROTC Kaoms Archer had 7k hp, and I took minimal HP nodes because I was picking up significant amounts of damage. Any decent 2H Kaoms build is gonna break 8k+ easily, and likely when min-maxed hit 10k non-legacy. You should be breaking 200% HP on an Archer in HC let alone on a 2H melee char which should be much closer to 270-280%.


Look, you can't say Evasion Archers have the same HP as the left side of the tree, because that is just factually false.

Dude I said a build WITHOUT Kaom's hits 6.5-7k life as melee, my archer will hit 6k life WITHOUT kaom's heart also.

And you said it yourself you picked up significant amounts of damage and put minimal points into life and still ended up with 7k life as a ranged character.

What would you like, invest into no life at all and get 10k life on the right side of the tree?
Archers aren't supposed to get 10k life, nor is it needed for playing an archer.
Even with a 250% life increase a Kaom's Heart will only give you 1400 more life compared to a 100 life rare chest, even less versus a belly. So that means that to hit 10k life you need a build that reaches like 8k life without Kaom's Heart.
Legacy Kaom's is not really a thing to discuss, because it is legacy...

And if you don't want to branch out for life nodes because it hurts your DPS then there is no point in this thread, you have to compromise on DPS if you want life, melee builds have to branch out to get life also and have to branch out if they want crit.

I am really sorry but archers can't have their cake and eat it too.

Even with a Kaoms Archer characters struggle vs Core Malachi let alone the new Guardians and some of the other new map bosses that have constant high spikes of damage. You can push out as much defense as you want, but you'll never reach the same EHP as a left side tree character ever will unless you completely gimp your defense, in which case you will likely die anyways because you aren't killing fast enough before the boss overwhelms you and you run out of flasks.

I said non-legacy, not legacy.

Why people have such a massive bias against Archers is just ridiculous. Yes, they were the best class. They are no longer the best class. GGG specifically designed alot of things in mind to prevent them from being the best class now adays. However, just because they were the best class in the game doesn't mean that their power level should suddenly drop to the point that they are incapable of completing endgame content without BiS level gear.


Your Archer is a left side tree Archer, I'm specifically talking about Ranger/Shadow Archers who are getting royally screwed by the new bosses unless they have obscene damage, that is really only granted by near BiS bows at this point.

https://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAABAIAAK_rAdGiQPT4oSLEorvjp9T-uv7IfXXTfu96AF7uDvajGY6jihUg7YMj9t0NLOktgwguTZKNfVuvhrMZtDB8IXYNjU4qvqd_K1FHhs6Hdkz_I9Owq2VNdcs51JUFN9SNv-dUwTPjn2egQzGPYMSCvTbqYnb3CIntPwW11CMk_Up92sGK8Ed-Mfqa8ejWMHH_3i5TdO3pRqCfXWgi6psm3ajTbwUtyqnDOjIBS3h675u1Kjgki7IZOkKExQ-rz3oWv2HrJpV6U2HiVUuMNonTcFIqC13yKwoRL-tjNj21SJ2qbIxirHX9hG8=

182% life tree with 4 jewel sockets, 240% evasion, acrobatics & phase acrobatis, vaal pact and dual leech, it also has ~280% phys projectile damage increase, 63% attack speed, 360% crit chance and 149% crit multi.
If you go with 4x 5% life jewels that is still 202% life increase, didn't even need the scion life wheel to reach that number.

But if you think stretching over to duelist area or scion life rectangle is too point intensive because you lose on DPS then it's a decision you made.

You then add in:
Taste of Hate, Vaal Grace, Basalt Flask, Chill, Blind and Decoy totem and you can trivialize most bosses.

T15/T16 bosses shouldn't be trivialized, and if you think melee has it easy go ahead and play melee and report back...

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Your Archer is a left side tree Archer, I'm specifically talking about Ranger/Shadow Archers who are getting royally screwed by the new bosses unless they have obscene damage, that is really only granted by near BiS bows at this point.

You can't really compare a right side archer with a left side melee. Better compare a left side archer with a left side melee and a right side archer with a right side melee.

Also Archers were never the best class... unless of course you call someone holding Voltaxic and casting Spark an Archer. But Chaostrappers and Voltaxic Sparkers were better and CoC/Discharge likely was always better. Before LL ST was better and before that Spark Totems. Lighting Arrow Static Blow Archers were pretty good at some point, maybe even the best but that is a few years back.

They were always top basically since the introduction of 2h physical damage mods for bows and physical projectile attack damage gem.

What hapen, have they changed range attack to NAME TAG also? Damn is such a pain i feel you man...

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Mannoth wrote:

https://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAABAIAAK_rAdGiQPT4oSLEorvjp9T-uv7IfXXTfu96AF7uDvajGY6jihUg7YMj9t0NLOktgwguTZKNfVuvhrMZtDB8IXYNjU4qvqd_K1FHhs6Hdkz_I9Owq2VNdcs51JUFN9SNv-dUwTPjn2egQzGPYMSCvTbqYnb3CIntPwW11CMk_Up92sGK8Ed-Mfqa8ejWMHH_3i5TdO3pRqCfXWgi6psm3ajTbwUtyqnDOjIBS3h675u1Kjgki7IZOkKExQ-rz3oWv2HrJpV6U2HiVUuMNonTcFIqC13yKwoRL-tjNj21SJ2qbIxirHX9hG8=

182% life tree with 4 jewel sockets, 240% evasion, acrobatics & phase acrobatis, vaal pact and dual leech, it also has ~280% phys projectile damage increase, 63% attack speed, 360% crit chance and 149% crit multi.
If you go with 4x 5% life jewels that is still 202% life increase, didn't even need the scion life wheel to reach that number.

But if you think stretching over to duelist area or scion life rectangle is too point intensive because you lose on DPS then it's a decision you made.

You then add in:
Taste of Hate, Vaal Grace, Basalt Flask, Chill, Blind and Decoy totem and you can trivialize most bosses.

T15/T16 bosses shouldn't be trivialized, and if you think melee has it easy go ahead and play melee and report back...

Man dude, you are seriously making me laugh. Try and go actually do Chimera/Hydra/etc. on one of your older characters with your build, and you'll find it's pretty hard as shit to do let alone Shaper.


Try doing it on like a ghetto Ancestral Warchief, Flameblast Totems, or BV build and you just lululul laugh. It's a world's difference in how much harder you actually have to play as an Archer against some of the newer bosses, as to other builds. I'm not saying it should be a faceroll easy mode, but it's hilarious that AW totems can basically have nearly garbage level gear while an Archer currently needs a ROTC or a 330+ PDPS Harbinger to clear the newer content without dying.

dont want to go in between the two of you fighting but i wanna ask if someone can post me a passive tree skill (shadow) build that can have

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182% life tree with 4 jewel sockets, 240% evasion, acrobatics & phase acrobatis, vaal pact and dual leech, it also has ~280% phys projectile damage increase, 63% attack speed, 360% crit chance and 149% crit multi.

but instead of phys proj, we go for melee damage increase