Sometimes it's worth to pick up every yellow item

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Bars wrote:

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Theyre godly.

You dont need to have a GG item for it to be godly by temporary league standards.

They are far from godly. I only play temp leagues, I'm not talking about the 'mirror gear or gtfo' league. It seems we just have different definitions of godly.

The chests you linked are worth ~2-3 chaos in Prophecy league. This means I probably won't even bother to list them after the first two weeks in a league, so for me they would be vendor trash if I were still playing in Prophecy. Bothering to pick up and identify chests is one of the least productive things to do with your time as most players use uniques anyway, with CI or life+ES builds being the one major exception and the reason why I only identify high-ES chests. The few builds which use solid rare armour or evasion-based chests always look for high armour or evasion rolls + life as a first priority, strength as a second priority for armour builds and resists are just an afterthought.


http://poe.trade/search/onirihisiamaum

Nah, youre free to think so however. Armour and Evasion are hilariously poor scaling stats without investment, theyre quite literally irrelevant unless youre scaling them. The only thing that matters on a chest is high resists and life. Youre literally better off picking up two extra endurance charges as a non-juggernaut than you are buying a 2K+ Armour chest piece.

People look at big numbers which are irrelevant in the big picture. You can pay all the exalts in the world for a top armour chest piece, it doesnt matter unless youre a juggernaut which doubles your armour on your chest piece.

Chest slot is the most competitive slot in the game, people dont value well rolled chests regardless because shit like Volls Protecter, Lightning Coil, Cospris exists.

Lightning Coil is stil BIS unless youre a juggernaut with an obscenely rolled armour chest.

Youre vendoring what you view personally is "trash" when it isnt.

I'm not discussing item and stat efficiency. I'm discussing prices. An item which can be easily found for 2-3 chaos in poe.trade, with many available options, can hardly be called 'godly'. The chance of getting this item is not an argument in favor of picking up and identifying items of this type.

If you enjoy picking up items, identifying them and finding something you like every once in a while, that's another story. Good for you. Just don't make it sound as if it's worth it to do so, because it isn't. Time is money in PoE and by picking up and identifying these chest bases you're losing money in the long run.

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Bars wrote:

I'm not discussing item and stat efficiency. I'm discussing prices. An item which can be easily found for 2-3 chaos in poe.trade, with many available options, can hardly be called 'godly'. The chance of getting this item is not an argument in favor of picking up and identifying items of this type.

If you enjoy picking up items, identifying them and finding something you like every once in a while, that's another story. Good for you. Just don't make it sound as if it's worth it to do so, because it isn't. Time is money in PoE and by picking up and identifying these chest bases you're losing money in the long run.

This tabula is godly :^)

People that play poe economy/time simulator teaching us what is worth and fun.

There are items that i wouldnt sell for 50 exalts, and they are worth that much to me, dont care about poe goods, if you can't have my piece of gear for any price, where does that put you?

If nobody did trade folks that do time economy simulator would run around naked speedfarming.

We need both sides, the ones that farm and the one that identify, without both sides, there would be no market. So both sides are worth.

I don't care about time or money in poe, I care about quality of gameplay, and identifying items does that for me, I'm on the far other side of spectrum opposite to some optimized runner.

Can people realize that some people play poe so that it isn't their other job, but for fun. Arguing will get us nowhere as both sides are right.

Only speedruns i do are in super mario 1988-1993 games.

I'm not telling you what's 'fun'. I've always said people should do whatever they enjoy the most in PoE and not care about anything else. I also recognized only doing speedruns is effective as far as there are people to feed gear to the market.

It would be incredibly stupid to try and argue what's the 'proper' way to play PoE. There's no proper way, everyone enjoys different things.

What can be discussed is the most efficient way in terms of income per hour and this is the only thing I've argued about in this thread.

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Bars wrote:

What can be discussed is the most efficient way in terms of income per hour and this is the only thing I've argued about in this thread.

But it is incorrect to act as if income per hour is the only reason anything should be done in this game. That is not the only criteria for determining enjoyment. And for some, it is completely irrelevant.

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Qiox wrote:

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Bars wrote:

What can be discussed is the most efficient way in terms of income per hour and this is the only thing I've argued about in this thread.

But it is incorrect to act as if income per hour is the only reason anything should be done in this game. That is not the only criteria for determining enjoyment. And for some, it is completely irrelevant.

Yes, of course :) I'm only talking about what can be measured and quantified. I'm choosing to interpret 'worth' as an economic term. If we interpret it as a term for subjective enjoyment, the thread would be pointless as there would be no basis for a meaningful argument. I like this, you like that and there's that.

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I'm choosing to interpret 'worth' as an economic term. If we interpret it as a term for subjective enjoyment, the thread would be pointless as there would be no basis for a meaningful argument. I like this, you like that and there's that.

Disclaimer: I have not followed the full argument so I could be missing some context. Just replying to the latest post almost in a vacuum (OP is considered)

Wow, we totally have a different definition of meaningful [discussion]. Discussion of subjective values pointless? This is a game forum, not an engineering forum. There is a world of ideas to be shared outside of quant, and a world of people out there for whom "worth" is composed of more than quant components.

Because I love analogies: Someone opens a discussion thread about how cheese is delicious. Replier 1 says cheese is nasty. Original poster is compelled to identify what it is about cheese that she or he finds delicious, and responds about its smooth texture, wide range of aromas, and varying levels of umame strength. Replier 1 says actually she or he prefers crunchy, dry textures, but he or she sees what OP likes about umame strength. Replies 2 barges in and says you're all wrong, gross sales volume of cheese in the United States is #3 out of all products. How do you think replier 3 looks?

The main difference, of course, is that "delicious" is obviously subjective while for you "worth" is obviously objective. Not so to me. Worth is measured in many different ways. Hopefully you don't measure a person's worth purely by dollar income, for example.

Economics, as presented in introductory classes, generally "misses the point" in the majority of scenarios, requiring such things as information symmetry and perfectly rational decision makers and most importantly, money as the only determinant of choice. Well, money is the main determinant, and the most easily measurable one, but good economics textbooks should recognize that the science will necessarily miss the trees for the forest due to ignoring all other determinants.

In our PoE example, that last paragraph applies in the measurement of worth. Suppose someone plays self found. In one alternate universe, nothing good at all drops and the player gets bored, quitting at 100 hrs. In the second universe, the boots mentioned in original post drop and the player plays the game for 50 hrs longer (150 hrs total). Is this not a measure of "worth"? As a native English speaker, that certainly seems to be the type of "worth" the original poster was trying to communicate. "Sometimes it's worth ... just saying (item)" says, to me, "I fully accept that this is economically irrational in the long term because long term profits are not maximized by an ID all strategy, but in the short term, an ID all strategy can produce items of value."

Tl;dr I think pigeonholing "worth" into quant only is unnecessarily restrictive.

Repeat disclaimer: I didn't pay attention to context so my whole post could be completely missing the point, sorry if it sounds antagonistic (i.e. criticizing an idea that you did not actually hold)

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Qiox wrote:

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Bars wrote:

What can be discussed is the most efficient way in terms of income per hour and this is the only thing I've argued about in this thread.

But it is incorrect to act as if income per hour is the only reason anything should be done in this game. That is not the only criteria for determining enjoyment. And for some, it is completely irrelevant.

The argument started over this line:

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Necromael wrote:

once i get a good drop, it makes it worth/repays for all those other slow runs on average so we are on the same page as speed runners, true story.

It's never been about 'the right way to play the game' or 'what is more fun'. A claim was made that can be measured, asserted without measurements. Bars has done some measuring of his own, and wanted to correct the record.

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Someone opens a discussion thread about how cheese is delicious. Replier 1 says cheese is nasty. Original poster is compelled to identify what it is about cheese that she or he finds delicious, and responds about its smooth texture, wide range of aromas, and varying levels of umame strength. Replier 2 says actually she or he prefers crunchy, dry textures, but he or she sees what OP likes about umame strength. Replies 2 barges in and says you're all wrong, gross sales volume of cheese in the United States is #3 out of all products. How do you think replier 3 looks?

Your analogy is flawed. In your example, replier 3 completely misses the meaning of 'delicious', which is by definition a word associated with subjective taste. So he looks stupid. What's more, you didn't describe an argument, you described a comparison of personal experiences interrupted by a clueless third party barging in. 'Worth', on the other hand, has a much wider range of meaning from the abstract and subjective to the concrete and quantifiable. I think arguments about the abstract and subjective are (usually) a waste of time.

You don't. You find them worthy. This is all well and good for you and I have nothing against it apart from not wishing to participate.

@innervation: thanks for the support, explaining the obvious for the N-th time to people who haven't read the discussion gets tiresome :)