Game Balance Development Manifesto Post

So much talk about powercreep, and the lame suggestions to reduce player power.

A real solution that will not upset people:
GIVE POWER APPROPRIATE CONTENT
RISK VS REWARD
ACTUALLY LET "PEOPLE" LEVEL TO 100
QUIT NERFING STRONG BUILDS ---> BUFF BUILDS THAT SUCK

Explanation
If I want a challenge for my current power level, don't gate it behind trade, if it is even currently available in game

If I am at the very edge of content my character is capable of, reward is necessary, which leads into...

XP Penalty is OP! Leveling should be a product of playing the game, not a chore. EXAMPLE @someone to me "wanna go kill this fun boss or do xyz fun maps" @me to someone "i would love to but only 30% to next level gotta spend the next 3 days grinding it out first" this shit just drains me of enthusiasm for a game that could be so great.

Nerfing strong builds because they can kill something with ingenuity and planning? HOW DARE THEY! NERF NERF NERF! This is idiotic. GGG actually wants build diversity? Then make more builds capable of killing shit with the same time investment and skill, and not innately disadvantaged by poor game mechanics. Not every build should have the same boss/map killing potential, but surely there can be more options out there without nerfing the top 3 builds over and over. Lets say, don't nerf blade vortex pathfinders next league, will everyone play bv pathfinders? Probably a large number of people will, but imagine if there were equally viable builds to chose, they probably wouldn't play bv pathfinder over and over. Let us play spark, let us play coc discharge, let us play LA frost wall. LET US PLAY WHAT WE WANT NOT WHAT YOU ALLOW.

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waskely wrote:

A real solution that will not upset people:
GIVE POWER APPROPRIATE CONTENT
RISK VS REWARD
ACTUALLY LET "PEOPLE" LEVEL TO 100
QUIT NERFING STRONG BUILDS ---> BUFF BUILDS THAT SUCK

OK, so I am really curious here: How do you give power-appropriate content to a well-built BV Pathfinder? That build has like 12k ES, infinite flask uptime, almost infinite leech, and a lot of damage. The only way I know to kill a BV Pathfinder is a one-shot. That means you need content that is able to one-shot through 12k ES or 17k ES with Vaal Discipline up. How do you challenge it without either shitty oneshot mechanics (which suck) or immunities (which also suck)?

That build is simply broken, if you want to buff other builds to the same power level, you trivialize all end-game content for everyone. You would have to give >10k life to everyone, and lots more damage. Do I want that? No. So yes, your "solution" would upset me.

The reason I am not playing BV pathfinder, even though I could build that character within about 30 minutes on Standard, is that I do not want that kind of end-game trivialization.

And permanent buffing of everything, extreme power creep, is not good for the game.

x

Their design philosophy is fix when ever possible. The problem is that time when it is possible is very short.

#1 Priority = Promotional Content
#2 Priority = Game Balance & Fixes
#3 Priority = Trade improvements
#4 Priority = Mac Official Client (lol)

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Char1983 wrote:

"

waskely wrote:

A real solution that will not upset people:
GIVE POWER APPROPRIATE CONTENT
RISK VS REWARD
ACTUALLY LET "PEOPLE" LEVEL TO 100
QUIT NERFING STRONG BUILDS ---> BUFF BUILDS THAT SUCK

OK, so I am really curious here: How do you give power-appropriate content to a well-built BV Pathfinder? That build has like 12k ES, infinite flask uptime, almost infinite leech, and a lot of damage. The only way I know to kill a BV Pathfinder is a one-shot. That means you need content that is able to one-shot through 12k ES or 17k ES with Vaal Discipline up. How do you challenge it without either shitty oneshot mechanics (which suck) or immunities (which also suck)?

That build is simply broken, if you want to buff other builds to the same power level, you trivialize all end-game content for everyone. You would have to give >10k life to everyone, and lots more damage. Do I want that? No. So yes, your "solution" would upset me.

The reason I am not playing BV pathfinder, even though I could build that character within about 30 minutes on Standard, is that I do not want that kind of end-game trivialization.

And permanent buffing of everything, extreme power creep, is not good for the game.

You would be upset by having more build options to clear endgame content with? You prefer to be pigeon holed into cookie cutter builds that may or may not trivialize certain aspects of endgame encounters?

I don't understand this at all. Because YOU don't want to play a certain build that utilizes certain uniques and skills with very high synergy to kill stuff with apparent ease, this play-style/build needs to be nerfed/removed. You should apply to work for GGG, because this mindset parallels their lazy nerf the top balance approach.

"

waskely wrote:

I don't understand this at all. Because YOU don't want to play a certain build that utilizes certain uniques and skills with very high synergy to kill stuff with apparent ease, this play-style/build needs to be nerfed/removed. You should apply to work for GGG, because this mindset parallels their lazy nerf the top balance approach.

Just leaving it here that I completely agree with Char's post.

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waskely wrote:

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Char1983 wrote:

"

waskely wrote:

A real solution that will not upset people:
GIVE POWER APPROPRIATE CONTENT
RISK VS REWARD
ACTUALLY LET "PEOPLE" LEVEL TO 100
QUIT NERFING STRONG BUILDS ---> BUFF BUILDS THAT SUCK

OK, so I am really curious here: How do you give power-appropriate content to a well-built BV Pathfinder? That build has like 12k ES, infinite flask uptime, almost infinite leech, and a lot of damage. The only way I know to kill a BV Pathfinder is a one-shot. That means you need content that is able to one-shot through 12k ES or 17k ES with Vaal Discipline up. How do you challenge it without either shitty oneshot mechanics (which suck) or immunities (which also suck)?

That build is simply broken, if you want to buff other builds to the same power level, you trivialize all end-game content for everyone. You would have to give >10k life to everyone, and lots more damage. Do I want that? No. So yes, your "solution" would upset me.

The reason I am not playing BV pathfinder, even though I could build that character within about 30 minutes on Standard, is that I do not want that kind of end-game trivialization.

And permanent buffing of everything, extreme power creep, is not good for the game.

You would be upset by having more build options to clear endgame content with? You prefer to be pigeon holed into cookie cutter builds that may or may not trivialize certain aspects of endgame encounters?

I don't understand this at all. Because YOU don't want to play a certain build that utilizes certain uniques and skills with very high synergy to kill stuff with apparent ease, this play-style/build needs to be nerfed/removed. You should apply to work for GGG, because this mindset parallels their lazy nerf the top balance approach.

You don't answer my question. Can you please answer the question how to produce power-appropriate content for a well-build BV pathfinder?

I don't want more builds that trivialize end-game content, no. I want real difficulty, where choice and skill matters, and in the case of BV pathfinders it doesn't seem to matter. You either get oneshot and die, or you don't and you win. That is, to be honest, very boring. It is cool to have that power, but it loses its appeal very fast.

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Char1983 wrote:

Can you please answer the question how to produce power-appropriate content for a well-build BV pathfinder?

Easy. Introduce an "endless challenge mode", like rifts in D3 or "endless dungeon" in TL1, where you progress into eternity. Introduce appropriate XP penalties compared to maps (and other penalties to fit the "all mighty economy") - and we're good to go. Challenging, level appropriate content for everyone - which is PERFECT for "PvP" too, unlike the failed Lab-PvP attempt. How far can YOU go?

We now have something to do after reaching 100, so might as well remove some of the XP penalties in high level maps too.

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Phrazz wrote:

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Char1983 wrote:

Can you please answer the question how to produce power-appropriate content for a well-build BV pathfinder?

Easy. Introduce an "endless challenge mode", like rifts in D3 or "endless dungeon" in TL1, where you progress into eternity. Introduce appropriate XP penalties compared to maps (and other penalties to fit the "all mighty economy") - and we're good to go. Challenging, level appropriate content for everyone - which is PERFECT for "PvP" too, unlike the failed Lab-PvP attempt. How far can YOU go?

We now have something to do after reaching 100, so might as well remove some of the XP penalties in high level maps too.

So where is the challenge? Not getting oneshot? A build that can be either at full ES or dead is intrinsically stupid.

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Ashen_Shugar_IV wrote:

2.0.0: "Melee is taken care of"

2.4.0: "Melee has been addressed"

2.5.0: "Melee has been removed from the game. We tried to fix it, but we failed and it's sooo bad we just said 'fuck it we're out'. Just play cospri's discharge or bv and pretend it's melee."