Game Balance Development Manifesto Post

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toyotatundra wrote:

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Ashen_Shugar_IV wrote:

2.0.0: "Melee is taken care of"

2.4.0: "Melee has been addressed"

2.5.0: "Melee has been removed from the game. We tried to fix it, but we failed and it's sooo bad we just said 'fuck it we're out'. Just play cospri's discharge or bv and pretend it's melee."

Sadly, this would be better than the current melee/armour system.

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Phrazz wrote:

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Char1983 wrote:

Can you please answer the question how to produce power-appropriate content for a well-build BV pathfinder?

Easy. Introduce an "endless challenge mode", like rifts in D3 or "endless dungeon" in TL1, where you progress into eternity. Introduce appropriate XP penalties compared to maps (and other penalties to fit the "all mighty economy") - and we're good to go. Challenging, level appropriate content for everyone - which is PERFECT for "PvP" too, unlike the failed Lab-PvP attempt. How far can YOU go?

We now have something to do after reaching 100, so might as well remove some of the XP penalties in high level maps too.

Give monsters the ability to be immune to life leach, watch BV pathfinders cry.

It isn't like elemental builds have to deal with high ele resistance, or people who curse deal with curse immune monsters, or that poison and bleed builds have bosses immune to that, or that there is an uber boss immune to status effects.

Option 2, give monsters/bosses the ability to be immune to crits.

There, it is no more damaging than curse immune, high resistance to your damage type, or being immune to burn/bleed/poison and would actually make bv pathfinders think

As I said, without immunities. Of course, if you make leech immune monsters, BV is going to have a problem.

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BJWPDaemonSadi wrote:

Give monsters the ability to be immune to life leach

HELL no! A lot of build - a part from BV - is relying on leech. Monsters immune to leech? No. Just no. Immune monsters are bullshit. Period.

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Phrazz wrote:

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BJWPDaemonSadi wrote:

Give monsters the ability to be immune to life leach

HELL no! A lot of build - a part from BV - is relying on leech. Monsters immune to leech? No. Just no. Immune monsters are bullshit. Period.

This mod already exists on item and in the tree.
Put a leech resistance, or a leech immunity, but then nerf reflect, or rework it.

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Char1983 wrote:

You don't answer my question. Can you please answer the question how to produce power-appropriate content for a well-build BV pathfinder?

I don't want more builds that trivialize end-game content, no. I want real difficulty, where choice and skill matters, and in the case of BV pathfinders it doesn't seem to matter. You either get oneshot and die, or you don't and you win. That is, to be honest, very boring. It is cool to have that power, but it loses its appeal very fast.

I'm not a game developer, but if I wanted to waste time making a well thought out solution that would never be implemented or considered, I would only make myself salty the next time a "balance" patch comes out that will go in the complete opposite direction. You seem to be one of those crying for a nerf to bv pathfinders, OK. What is broken? Vinktars? Vaal Pact? BV? ES gear?

Vinktars is a unique item, it does unique things, the only thing happening here is an ascendancy dedicated entirely to flasks is ... omg... USING FLASKS!
Vaal Pact is a big circle on the passive tree, it is a solution to reflect, it bypasses leech per second, and its main function is to solve reflect
BV is a fast hitting skill used to do damage in melee range
ES Gear, gives the character blue life, way too much controversy to comment, but in my opinion, only needs life to be comparable.

Power appropriate content is simple, higher level monsters, more hp, more xp, more loot(lol) which the player can choose to play for risk vs reward. Ties in well with leveling to 100, which I dont understand the reasoning for preventing this achievement for real players. GGG's reason is people will quit if they reach 100? But if it is boring enough to push more levels, the player will just make a new character...? Imagine if leveling to 100 was "fun" the player will do it again.

To be clear, i'm not advocating BV Pathfinders specifically, i'm just tired of people's ingenuity developing synergistic builds to complete content efficiently going to waste. I just want to see MORE of them simultaneously viable. I don't want every build to perform exactly the same, but the fun is removed when xyz build no longer works because of an ascendancy nerf, or a unique nerf, or a skill gem nerf. Notice the commonality of the above items all have the word nerf in them, removal of power is negative, and lazy. The release of league specific uniques, or patch notes(nerf list), tells the players what build to play.

GGG TELLS US WHAT TO PLAY

My feedback, I dont like nerfs.

My suggestion, remove feign build diversity, allow true build diversity. Let players play the way they want to, all the way to 100 if they want to, WHILE HAVING FUN.

To fix balance from monster's side:

1. Stop creating oneshots, create actual mechanics instead.

2. Remove permanent immunities, use resistances instead. Bosses with immunity phases would be fine though.

3. Map mods should not apply equally to EVERYTHING. There's a big difference between making a skeleton chain skills, fire more projectiles and deal 95% extra damage as fire than doing the same to let's say flame ribbons or undying alchemists. Many bosses outright instakill with even a couple of those mods. Hand-tune the mods, make them apply different values to different monsters and skills.


To fix balance from, player's side:

1. Good luck, everything's so fucked up at this point I donn't even think there's a way to salvage anything. Generally we need less speed, less damage and less brainless 1 button builds. Survivability mechanics need to be reworked as well. Most of the balance issues come from the freedom we have, it's just too much sometimes and there's no proper way to keep things in check.

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Raudram wrote:

To fix balance from monster's side:

1. Stop creating oneshots, create actual mechanics instead.

2. Remove permanent immunities, use resistances instead. Bosses with immunity phases would be fine though.

3. Map mods should not apply equally to EVERYTHING. There's a big difference between making a skeleton chain skills, fire more projectiles and deal 95% extra damage as fire than doing the same to let's say flame ribbons or undying alchemists. Many bosses outright instakill with even a couple of those mods. Hand-tune the mods, make them apply different values to different monsters and skills.

1. Without good suggestion to back this, it means basically nothing I'm afraid. It's the designer's job to come up with what's good to the game though.

2. Definitely

3. No imho, it would make the game much less interesting.
Some things are better in some situations than in others ? well that's great ( no irony here ).

Any Melee improvements in 2.5.0?

If you're never going to properly address melee concerns that's something that should be made clear.

We got fortify so thats something right? The thing is this issue has no solution. All rpgs have this issue. Make melee to strong and no one will play ranged. Make any changes ranged can benefit from and ranged only gets stronger.