Chris: You are Wrong about Red Maps.

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ACGIFT wrote:
What evidence do you have to suggest that there are even 100k endgame players in this game? There's probably vastly fewer.

you're right, there are fewer.

the ladder ending at level 90 at player 15k, there maybe (my guess) only 50k players playing endgame.
age and treachery will triumph over youth and skill!
Last edited by vio on Jul 10, 2016, 5:19:14 PM
^^ you could say many things i would put the numbers much lower maybe 30000 playing maybe less steam is under 10000 at present. The take up of lab in standard seems close to non existent judging by the number of enchantments and gem's with q prices.
As many have stated chris always says bizarre things about maps and getting to 100, I like ggg but there stance on endgame is really hurting them.
Last edited by Fhark on Jul 10, 2016, 10:23:52 PM
You can blame the xp nerf, sure, having that kind of thing happening is ridiculous ..... but you could also blame the clearspeed meta combined with the ridiculous recent powercreep.
Having most of the map content ignored ( half of the maps ) outside of challenges is not great =/.

What they could do ( but many players would not like it ) also :
- Nerf the too-linear maps layout ( not a fan of this solution, and they'd piss too many people off to be something to expect imho )
- find a way to nerf the clearspeed meta ( it has always been more or less a clearspeed race, but with the recent powercreep it seems even more ridiculous honestly ). I would like this, but it would need a huge balance rework, and a big nerf to ranged builds ( or huge buff to both monsters and melees ), and they would also piss many people off just doing that.

Or they could tweak the xp again, I feel like they've gone too far in that clearspeed - powercreep effect to be able to just backup safely now.

But maybe they'll have some other solutions, I'm curious about what they're going to do about it.

On a side note, I'd really like to see stats of what map runs, which ones are actually the most popular ( this should not hold any surprise I guess ), etc ....
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
Last edited by Fruz on Jul 10, 2016, 10:41:48 PM
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kamil1210 wrote:
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ghoulavenger wrote:
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kamil1210 wrote:
Does OP try to convince people that main developer of game that have access to data made of all account in game is wrong?

If you run Gorge and say: this is best XP in game.

And developer say: Gorge is not the best xp/h any many players that we track prove this.

Then you are wrong.

I do believe Chris said top xp per map, not top xp per hour.


Yep. Main game developer is probably so cut out of game and player base that he don't know that top players refer to xp/h so he don't refer to xp/h when he is saying "best place to find items and gain experience"
Well, either that, or he is just lying by substituting the question from "xp/hour" to "xp/map".
And worst change is putting almost all bosses in new version of maps into fucking small areas, where you can't kite well or dodge stuff. What a terrible idiot invented that I want say to him: dude flick you, seriously flick you very much.
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Fruz wrote:
You can blame the xp nerf, sure, having that kind of thing happening is ridiculous ..... but you could also blame the clearspeed meta combined with the ridiculous recent powercreep.
Having most of the map content ignored ( half of the maps ) outside of challenges is not great =/.

What they could do ( but many players would not like it ) also :
- Nerf the too-linear maps layout ( not a fan of this solution, and they'd piss too many people off to be something to expect imho )

I'm not a fan of this solution either, but it is certainly one I've mentioned before and would probably work.
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Fruz wrote:

- find a way to nerf the clearspeed meta ( it has always been more or less a clearspeed race, but with the recent powercreep it seems even more ridiculous honestly ). I would like this, but it would need a huge balance rework, and a big nerf to ranged builds ( or huge buff to both monsters and melees ), and they would also piss many people off just doing that.

Nerfing the clear speed meta is easy. All you need to do is give all movement skills an internal cooldown, especially whirling blades. The caster variants are already pretty decent about this as lightning warp isn't instant anymore, and flame dash has a maximum of 3 charges. The rest of them not so much. Sure, there will still be people flasking up with quicksilvers, but that is much harder to sustain map wide and has a much higher opportunity cost. The problem is that GGG is hesistant to break the clear speed meta entirely.
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silumit wrote:
Well, either that, or he is just lying by substituting the question from "xp/hour" to "xp/map".


This. Refer to my explanation on the Page 2. Not technically a lie, but he didn't answer the question.

Very deceitful Media/PR Q&A strategy;

Ask about Something with Condition A/B/C or whatever else.

The person who answers chooses to answer in a way that restates a condition that has already been put out there (just reworded), and/or under Condition D. This gives a false appearance that the question has been answered, but in reality the person asking the question receives no actual answer in the end. Add in some random BS about "players wanting to challenge themselves," and you have a GGG approved answer in a Q&A thread.

(Also spit in the face of your players by only responding one time in the Development Manifesto thread only regarding MTX frogs, but that is a different story)
Fake Temp League Elitists LUL
Last edited by _Saranghaeyo_ on Jul 11, 2016, 1:56:54 AM
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Fhark wrote:
As many have stated chris always says bizarre things about maps and getting to 100, I like ggg but there stance on endgame is really hurting them.

what's hurting them is the zig zag of nerfs and buffs for players to get to 100 in the first place.
Spoiler

it's pretty clear that introducing new acts/weapons with the power creep attached changes the way to 100 and is difficult to balance.

but that's it. fiddling with it permanently makes it a rather unattractive goal. people need clear timeframes to evaluate such efforts like: "did you level before the base experience gain was raised to 2% with the introduction of act 4 or not".
age and treachery will triumph over youth and skill!
Just my personal take but whats boring me is having no challenging content. I have a double curse 3 totem build its not super fast and all i want with it is to play something challenging and newish. Theres nothing outisde of no-lifing to buy my way into content. Running tier 7-9 maps is dull as for so many builds since the power creep of ascendancy.
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ghoulavenger wrote:

Nerfing the clear speed meta is easy. All you need to do is give all movement skills an internal cooldown, especially whirling blades. The caster variants are already pretty decent about this as lightning warp isn't instant anymore, and flame dash has a maximum of 3 charges. The rest of them not so much. Sure, there will still be people flasking up with quicksilvers, but that is much harder to sustain map wide and has a much higher opportunity cost. The problem is that GGG is hesistant to break the clear speed meta entirely.

You are wrong.
The root of current meta is powercreep. Players oneshot whole screens full of mobs (or even 2 screens) in 0.3-1 second, including rares and even bosses sometimes. If GGG somehow increase time needed to kill trash/rares/bosses, the "clear speed" meta will go.
Of course, claer speed will ALWAYS do matter. But in balanced game, clear speed should depend on balanced combination of AoE DPS, AoE coverage, single-target DPS, survivability and movement speed. In current meta, only AoE coverage and movespeed matter. That's why we have so silly meta.
Also, hard maps, bosses and other challenges are not rewarded appropriately (with an exception of uber lab).
IGN: MortalKombat
Molten Strike build guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1346504

There is no knowledge
That is not power
Last edited by MortalKombat3 on Jul 12, 2016, 3:08:20 AM
Well the clearspeed meta won't go... it is the only thing that matters.

Clearspeed however has two components, one is the damage and the second one is the ability to traverse the area. Since damage is so easy to come by and overpowering the health pools of most enemies by a large amount only the second one matters right now. So we actually have basically a movespeed meta, because damage is taken as a given fact. This means the only thing that matters is how many enemies I can encounter in a given time, since encountering them means they are dead instantly.

Also I'm not sure if Chris answered the question wrongly. Since the math done in the OP is only true for level 99 and ignores one very important thing. Higher levels mobs give more base xp (during leveling it is about 8% per level, not sure how it scales into maps, but if it is the same a T15 map would give more than 40% more xp per enemy than a T10. XP in a map isn't only decided by the penalty you get, but also by the base xp monsters yield, and that one is growing by level as well. So Chris might actually be right even for lvl99, although this still only is true if you can actually clear them as fast.

I'm not really sure there was a need to penalize lvl77+ maps, but then again I don't really see a need to care about leveling to 100. Leveling to 100 was never really a thing for them and honestly they just shouldn't care. If you care about it you are always trapped between people saying it is too easy and those saying it is too hard. For me honestly once I'm lvl85-90 I don't actually care about XP anymore, I'm finished. I will reach higher levels at some time, but I don't aim at it, it just happens inevitably.

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