Chris: You are Wrong about Red Maps.

Oh my god why are you people so terrible at staying on topic. Only MortalKombat seems to understand what this topic is about.

Anyway, I'm personally hopeful that today's announcement will reveal a fix to the very specific problem that this topic is about, that is, that gorge and plateau are more exp-efficient than all red maps, period (and that Chris doesn't understand this; if it's no longer true then there won't be anything he still needs to understand!).

If it doesn't solve that one very important problem, well, I'm keeping this topic bumped until next expansion.

I guess GGG dont really play the game.
All they enjoy is torturing us players.

Their number 1 job is Nerfing.
Builds. Items. Exp.
Great Job reducing players.

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GinSchiffer wrote:

I guess GGG dont really play the game.
All they enjoy is torturing us players.

Their number 1 job is Nerfing.
Builds. Items. Exp.
Great Job reducing players.

THAT IS NOT WHAT THIS TOPIC IS ABOUT. It's about _math_, and how Chris's math is bad. Not about how exp was nerfed.

I don't think I can get on board with Damage ∝ Reward. Basically you maximize reward to the greatest extent possible then simply remove all damage by off-screening all content.
Hate to be that guy.....actually I don't, Melee needs consideration.

However, given an equitable scaling of risk I think it could work and work well. Unfortunately that's one pretty fucking big obstacle.....

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HikaruYami wrote:

THAT IS NOT WHAT THIS TOPIC IS ABOUT. It's about _math_, and how Chris's math is bad. Not about how exp was nerfed.

I'd like to add something, but it's kinda hard to add something.
In previous patch, gorge/plateu were more popular than red maps, despite red maps providing MUCH less experience penalty.
There was a problem, though - players leveled too fast to 100 level.

For me, solution is clear - increase experience required to get 90 levels (mostly for 95+ level). Also, i'd nerfed pack density just a bit on gorge/plateu/arid lake/etc (5-15%, depending on map).

But GGG have done completely the opposite. Then actually NERFED high-level maps a lot (despite those aready being not best way to level up), and mid-level maps - just a bit.
WTF? They've got all the statistics, all data, all access to database, math, etc...
And they still make so imbalanced changes.....
And it's not the single time. It happens every patch (be it poison, OP league items, skills, llist goes on).

If GGG continue to move that way, PoE future is grim. Believe me.

agreed with OP. No idea about sc but in hc you're better off running good-mid tiers without breaking a sweat, rather than going for the red maps. Just look at the streamers. They just go and crush em 2-3 minutes a map, I don't think anyone that's playing competitively is going for the red maps when racing to 100.

not that good myself but come on... just look at the streams when the leagues begin. If the xp ratio was so good on reds, they would have absolutely risked it. No need for math here, it seems.

/edit: all irrelevant now. Lets see how it changed in 2.4 in 20 days. T16 confirmed on promo page.

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Razis wrote:

agreed with OP. No idea about sc but in hc you're better off running good-mid tiers without breaking a sweat, rather than going for the red maps.

In SC, it's the same. Some players push even more ibnto clearspeed, though, cause death wont ment an end to a character.

Glad people seem to be on the same page now.

Anyway, Atlas looks like it has potential, as long as either (a) "+5 tier" items aren't rare _or_ (b) some of the new, top-tier maps have _good layouts_.

If they don't have good layouts and it is thus impossible to run higher-tier maps that are more efficient than Plateau, or the +5 tier items (which are temporary; they only apply to 5 maps each) are rare enough that it is infeasible to make every gorge/plateau map be ~max-tier, then Chris continues to just not understand math. These things remain to be seen.

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HikaruYami wrote:

or the +5 tier items (which are temporary; they only apply to 5 maps each)

source?