Chris: You are Wrong about Red Maps.

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kamil1210 wrote:

Does OP try to convince people that main developer of game that have access to data made of all account in game is wrong?

If you run Gorge and say: this is best XP in game.

And developer say: Gorge is not the best xp/h any many players that we track prove this.

Then you are wrong.

The Op pointed out that Chris was potentially intentionally misleading by talking about XP per map instead of answering the persons question.

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kamil1210 wrote:

Then you are wrong.

Having perfect information is no insurance against making an incorrect decision, because humans are not machines; they are fallible creatures, prone to numerous flaws such as confirmation bias.

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kamil1210 wrote:

Does OP try to convince people that main developer of game that have access to data made of all account in game is wrong?

If you run Gorge and say: this is best XP in game.

And developer say: Gorge is not the best xp/h any many players that we track prove this.

Then you are wrong.

I do believe Chris said top xp per map, not top xp per hour. With mob density and all other things held constant, it would have to be top xp per map because of effective mob level. This I don't think there is or has ever been any contention with.

But if it takes me five minutes to clear the tier 15, and only two minutes and a half minutes to clear a gorge then the tier 15 map needs to provide me at least twice the experience the gorge does to remain competitive. These numbers are just for illustration purposes, I don't know what the clear speed on t15s look like, and I hear a lot of people complaining about 2 minute gorges (personally my clear on most maps is closer to 8-10 minutes, but I run incinerate, flame dash no wb, and pick up almost every rare, kill the map boss, etc). With the effective levels being so close together (and being made closer by 2.3.0), the experience penalty is only marginally better on the tier 15 map, and will not provide twice as much experience, and therefore the gorge can win out (quantity over quality).

So while it may not be the case that gorges provide better xp per hour than red maps, I wouldn't be surprised if it were. Even under optimal conditions where you can pull the same pack clear (1 shotting the screen), if the map layout isn't favorable, that might be enough for the lower level map to win (because you spend less time backtracking etc).

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ghoulavenger wrote:

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kamil1210 wrote:

Does OP try to convince people that main developer of game that have access to data made of all account in game is wrong?

If you run Gorge and say: this is best XP in game.

And developer say: Gorge is not the best xp/h any many players that we track prove this.

Then you are wrong.

I do believe Chris said top xp per map, not top xp per hour.

Yep. Main game developer is probably so cut out of game and player base that he don't know that top players refer to xp/h so he don't refer to xp/h when he is saying "best place to find items and gain experience"

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we're totally fine with the average player deciding not to play the most challenging content.

People just need to swallow pride and accept they are not the best player with best build and there are better and more effective ways to play game. If they think they are PRO they need to became better, not to aks to change content becasue it will not make them better.

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buhdunkadunk wrote:

oh no you didn't !

I hear the charge of the white knight brigade coming ........ run

Since years everytime I read this sentence I hear a song inside my head:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEbE3fGfF-o

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ACGIFT wrote:

What evidence do you have to suggest that there are even 100k endgame players in this game? There's probably vastly fewer.

you're right, there are fewer.

the ladder ending at level 90 at player 15k, there maybe (my guess) only 50k players playing endgame.

^^ you could say many things i would put the numbers much lower maybe 30000 playing maybe less steam is under 10000 at present. The take up of lab in standard seems close to non existent judging by the number of enchantments and gem's with q prices.
As many have stated chris always says bizarre things about maps and getting to 100, I like ggg but there stance on endgame is really hurting them.

You can blame the xp nerf, sure, having that kind of thing happening is ridiculous ..... but you could also blame the clearspeed meta combined with the ridiculous recent powercreep.
Having most of the map content ignored ( half of the maps ) outside of challenges is not great =/.

What they could do ( but many players would not like it ) also :
- Nerf the too-linear maps layout ( not a fan of this solution, and they'd piss too many people off to be something to expect imho )
- find a way to nerf the clearspeed meta ( it has always been more or less a clearspeed race, but with the recent powercreep it seems even more ridiculous honestly ). I would like this, but it would need a huge balance rework, and a big nerf to ranged builds ( or huge buff to both monsters and melees ), and they would also piss many people off just doing that.

Or they could tweak the xp again, I feel like they've gone too far in that clearspeed - powercreep effect to be able to just backup safely now.

But maybe they'll have some other solutions, I'm curious about what they're going to do about it.

On a side note, I'd really like to see stats of what map runs, which ones are actually the most popular ( this should not hold any surprise I guess ), etc ....

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kamil1210 wrote:

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ghoulavenger wrote:

"

kamil1210 wrote:

Does OP try to convince people that main developer of game that have access to data made of all account in game is wrong?

If you run Gorge and say: this is best XP in game.

And developer say: Gorge is not the best xp/h any many players that we track prove this.

Then you are wrong.

I do believe Chris said top xp per map, not top xp per hour.

Yep. Main game developer is probably so cut out of game and player base that he don't know that top players refer to xp/h so he don't refer to xp/h when he is saying "best place to find items and gain experience"

Well, either that, or he is just lying by substituting the question from "xp/hour" to "xp/map".

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Fruz wrote:

You can blame the xp nerf, sure, having that kind of thing happening is ridiculous ..... but you could also blame the clearspeed meta combined with the ridiculous recent powercreep.
Having most of the map content ignored ( half of the maps ) outside of challenges is not great =/.

What they could do ( but many players would not like it ) also :
- Nerf the too-linear maps layout ( not a fan of this solution, and they'd piss too many people off to be something to expect imho )

I'm not a fan of this solution either, but it is certainly one I've mentioned before and would probably work.

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Fruz wrote:

- find a way to nerf the clearspeed meta ( it has always been more or less a clearspeed race, but with the recent powercreep it seems even more ridiculous honestly ). I would like this, but it would need a huge balance rework, and a big nerf to ranged builds ( or huge buff to both monsters and melees ), and they would also piss many people off just doing that.

Nerfing the clear speed meta is easy. All you need to do is give all movement skills an internal cooldown, especially whirling blades. The caster variants are already pretty decent about this as lightning warp isn't instant anymore, and flame dash has a maximum of 3 charges. The rest of them not so much. Sure, there will still be people flasking up with quicksilvers, but that is much harder to sustain map wide and has a much higher opportunity cost. The problem is that GGG is hesistant to break the clear speed meta entirely.